Does game selection matter or doesn't it?

I'll take cosi 3-6 handed vs. anyone on Stars up to 100/200.

u do realize there are other sites than stars out there right?

so the highlighted statemt is pretty LOL tbh

ummm

really?

Ha, sure, take your time coming back though. Are you moving to Vancouver like everyone else?

I mentioned that I was going by Stars didn't I? Who do you think is better?

I am hoping to be there in a couple weeks. I only plan to stay for 3 months though. Vancouver is awesome, but I want to experience some other countries too.

Yes. But, then again, I've said I'll take "grapenuts" over anyone hu so I could just be out of my mind.

You just have a hardon for passive players.

Cosi is good, but far from the toughest.
As far as 2010+ I wouldn't even put him in my top 10.

Very curious who you are if you have any credibility to rank skill.

Ha, thanks for the kind words. I do think I'm playing 3-6 player fixed HE as good as anyone right now. There are a whole bunch of guys that would have an edge heads up against me though, I don't understand the hand ranges and adjustments as well. I do think Dr. Olson and Quaternion were playing better than me last year and if they were to return, I wouldn't expect to have an edge over them.

You mention high volume and I think that's important if you're going to make a list of best of best players. There is super variance in HE and there are a number of players that have won significant amounts of money that have huge leaks in their 6 max games. So it's easy to fall into the trap of seeing someone who has won a million dollars and label them as a great 6-max player. Many of the guys I'm referring to (I'm not going to name names) ran up their bankrolls playing heads up at super high stakes. Some of them are great heads up players, some of them aren't. While that is impressive and deserves respect, it has nothing to do with how they play 6-max.

ZZeigler is an excellent 6-max player and someone who can play long sessions while keeping his emotions in control. There are very few players that have the ability to do that. Most good players tilt and even though many of them are smart enough to quit, they still are in effect costing themselves money, though less money, because they no longer have the ability to play. I think I have little or no edge over him and certainly no edge postrake.

I have played a lot with Cosi in the last month and next to Quaternion he is the most balanced postflop player I've ever played against. If his preflop play improves, I would have no edge against him and possibly be at a disadvantage.

hmm

I remember when I played a number of huhu sessions against grapenuts at 200/400 and 500/1k, I thought he sucked because of his weird style, but a number of people who are better than me at hu (I blow at hu so the list is long) told me he's good, so nowadays I just wonder how big his edge was, lol.

Anyway, I've always has this idea that there were two kinds of "best players". Firstly, the ones that were the best at the actual gameplay, and secondly, the best pros (tilt control, game selection, grinding lots of hours, etc.).

For Stars, my list would be:

best players (no order):

heisenb3rg
Dr_Olson
kobeyard85

best pros (no order for the first two):

tpirahna
zzeigler

and then a number of people could be third: omgzzz, unguarded, st1ck, jadajadamasa ...

All of the people on the second list have played a ton of hours, I guess except for omgz, but his game selection is ridiculous and he definitely can play the game as well.

I have to admit I am extremely curious if I would make a top 10 or 20 or 30 list. Not trolling for answers, just have always wondered what people thought about my game . I've never really done any studying on my game or whatever so I honestly have no idea. But I promise I'm not going to pull a fishboy "Top FTP players" thread, in order to put myself on it.

ah ok, didnt realize u were doing a stars-only profitability ranking

I do know some other guys who make more money than the guys you list though (at the same stakes), which is why i responded, but i have no idea who is better than who as i feel our own impression of someones play is so easily affected by variance anyway.

As for the best 6max player in the world right now I would put my money on bizzark at partypoker. I mean, who else wins ~3BB/100 at 6max LHE 10/20+ playing one site only with limited table selection.
Pretty sure the answer is noone.

pirahna, if you let me sleep on your couch in Canadia, I promise to give you both whatever sports betting action you'd want AND expert tilt chatting lessons, in addition to never again making fun of you being a game selection supernit

Haha I'm leaving tomorrow, would love the sports betting action though. Good luck with everything if you move up here.

This is really the key for me if you ask who the 3 best 6-Max limit players are.

Define "best" or "top".

For me the answer isn't the person who wins the most money. That would be like saying the best mutual fund in the world is the one with the highest return that year. Often the best performing mutual funds are the ones with the highest risk and under perform in following years. That's why things like Standard Deviation and Sharpe Ratio are important.

And using my mutual fund example, I'd put myself on the other end of the spectrum of being too risk averse or a nit as you say. This has to do with my situation of having a wife and mortgage and numerous other bills as well as the experience of losing half a million dollars playing blackjack when I was young.

By the way, one skill set that I think very few of you examine is how good someone exploits fish.

You are probabily not paying attention to other players pots when you are not in the hand together.

Sometime I see some otherwise good players leave heaps of money on the table against fish.

This is one thing I really respect about st1ckman. I think against other pros hes got a ton of leaks (plays ok), but he's capable of going ape**** when the situation warrents it.

Same with Dr_Olson, Chacky-royal, Otterkopf, Korextron etc.

This is incredibly important. Most of the value in 6-max games comes from the poor players, the good players are generally within a .5 BB/100 of each other. It's also why those super balanced postflop styles are a detriment to overall profitability.

And one other thought completely unrelated. If people are going to judge the best players by money won, rakeback and bonuses has to be included. Money is money.

What sites are these guys playing on?

Joined stars this year (and 2+2 today) so I cant judge pre 2011 players, but for now my vote for the no.1 definitely goes to otter.

the three people on pokerstars who gave me the most trouble 6max were

otter
dr_o
valesco

i don't necessarily think they are the best, just that they did a better job than anyone at making me play really bad. so relative to myself i think those three are the best but relative to the whole LHE world, its' tough to say for sure. the difference in skill level at the top is so thin.

its hard to argue against tpirana, zzeigler though just for results and work ethics alone. strangely enough, i've always felt very comfortable playing with them.

quarternion and schafsheep are probably the best imo.

I know what you mean chris. i didn't play on pokerstars but played zzeigler on full tilt and wondered why so many think he's so good. I found him easy to play. Not a knock on him, as his style is probably more profitable than some other players that i find (personally) to be very difficult to play. Like i remember finding him somewhat straight forward(not sure if this is what others think?, maybe just how he played me since i'm a maniac) so his style didn't tilt or confuse me. I felt pretty comfortable with all my decisions. But that being said he prolly was playing optimally against me as straight forward was prolly the right play. Same with Mike Schneider, i felt i could read him pretty well(again not a knock as he prolly playing me correctly) but i tilted less and made better decisions vs him as i knew where i was at more often.

I think when you play wild unpredictable players they are much more difficult to play personally, but they aren't playing the most optimally. Other players i found difficult to play were : chessnok, 16fcali, giftnthecurse, philuva, ballzdeepx, nosorog, misterbunny, doughnutz, fearthesadpuppy, tommyhanks to name some off the top of my head. I bet zzeigler and mike schneider prolly are playing more optimally than most of these guys but for me personally i'd much rather play an individual hand vs them. Only played zzeigler a little but this is how i remembered him. And out of that group i would say misterbunny and douhnutz gave me the most problems(but that might only be because they ran like golden gods lol)

Just because one is a pain in the ass to play against does not mean that they are not profitable to play against. Unless, of course, the stupid things they do send you spiraling into the abyss of raging monkey tilt.

Agreed! This is the 2nd time this week me and pokerbob have not only agreed, but haven't insulted each other. I like this pokerbob! But i know the other post was sarcasm, but i'll take it anyway!

that's not to say i think zzeigler is easy. we actually played pretty aggressively vs each other, i just happened to be able to react well to what he was doing. it happens with some lagtags while others i couldn't really get a grasp on at all like otter who just made me play really bad.

i think rashef has big leaks in his game from watching him play hands against other players but absolutely crushed me anytime we ever played for whatever reason. in that way he was easily the toughest player on ftp for me at least.

contrast these exploitive lagtags with someone like quarternion who just never ever makes a mistake. he may be "easy" to play against but there's like no way to get any edge against him. that makes him one of the best.

reshef is ****ing terrible.