Stickman got punished
12-11-2010
, 09:17 AM
12-12-2010
, 05:59 PM
12-21-2010
, 04:42 PM
01-03-2011
, 10:11 AM
Quote:
I agree with pretty much everything you're saying, leo. St1ckman is no saint, he is completely unethical and terrible for the games-- that is well-established and documented. However, one thing I can say about him is that he always plays by himself online.
Yesterday, a $3000/6000 game ran for the first time in online poker history. Amazingly the game quickly filled, with a few players one wouldn't have expected, namely Kobeyard and Schniblor, sitting within a couple minutes of each other. Neither player has played higher than 200/400 since June 3. Kobeyard quickly made it obvious he was playing from the same roll as IHateJuice, by playing him HU for a while after Ted Forrest sat out. These three players are all involved with pokerstrategy and are close with one another away from the tables.
Alarm bells. If you have 3 or 4 guys playing from the same bankroll, for a massive game in which a $500k session up or down is highly possible, it would be incredibly tempting for them to share information. Period. People go to much more elaborate lengths for <$10,000. Poker players can be naive. This is big money. This is "eff-you" money.
Another German showed up who, according to Tableratings, has never played a hand of limit holdem in his career (screenname "youreamaniac"). He had no problem sitting down at the biggest game of online limit hold'em of all time. Who was controlling his account, and who was funding this expedition?
Alarm bells...
Yesterday, a $3000/6000 game ran for the first time in online poker history. Amazingly the game quickly filled, with a few players one wouldn't have expected, namely Kobeyard and Schniblor, sitting within a couple minutes of each other. Neither player has played higher than 200/400 since June 3. Kobeyard quickly made it obvious he was playing from the same roll as IHateJuice, by playing him HU for a while after Ted Forrest sat out. These three players are all involved with pokerstrategy and are close with one another away from the tables.
Alarm bells. If you have 3 or 4 guys playing from the same bankroll, for a massive game in which a $500k session up or down is highly possible, it would be incredibly tempting for them to share information. Period. People go to much more elaborate lengths for <$10,000. Poker players can be naive. This is big money. This is "eff-you" money.
Another German showed up who, according to Tableratings, has never played a hand of limit holdem in his career (screenname "youreamaniac"). He had no problem sitting down at the biggest game of online limit hold'em of all time. Who was controlling his account, and who was funding this expedition?
Alarm bells...
Quote:
nevermore86 already told you some of the reasons we know each other but i will try to go a little more into detail.
actually i didnt want to post anything about the accusations at all because i find them just ridicolous but i realized that it might look weird for outsiders that have 0 background information so ill give you a few.
first of all: pretty much all the highstakes players from germany started playing poker with money from pokerstrategy.com. the site is the biggest affiliate/pokerschool in the world. ive been the lead instructor for Fixed Limit for about 3.5 years now so i know that these guys had good practice
besides the fact that we know each other via the forums, nevermore also told you that we get invitations to 3 events per year for one weekend each which helps a lot to get to know each other personally.
i really hope everybody will consider me as a fair player and a regular at the highest stakes for years so i hope my information wont get questioned. (i know i have my chat-tilting issues, but besides that i never did anything particularely bad when it comes to online poker)
1. we dont pool our money or play from the same bankroll
2. we never collude because it wouldnt make sense since everybody who is playing is responsible for his own outcome. while we have respect for each other and sometimes like each other we are still very competitive. would you make accusations about the livepros like phil ivey, durrrr, PA, gus hansen and others that they are teaming up just because they might like each other, do know each other well and play in the same games? hell of course you wouldnt because you know these guys want to destroy everybody in their way and so do we.
3. do you really think we are stupid enough to break any rules considering the fact that we have so much money at risk?
ill also give you some information about where these guys come from.
o fortuna pls is pretty much the sickest grinder ive ever met (besides st1ckman). hes been playing on partypoker exclusively at first and when he first started playing 50/100 i never thought he was going to last since i thought he played horribly but he got so much money from fish sitting and waiting all nights at the 50/100 and 100/200 tables + an enormous amount of rakeback that he was able to play the stakes long enough til he was beating games with just 1 fish. about 2 years ago i guess he started playing on stars and at first had trouble to get a bankroll because its not easy to deposit a lot of money on stars as a new customer using moneybookers/neteller. but he eventually managed to establish himself there and is a very well known winner there too. FTP was the last site he added afaik. he also plays NL so he has lots of sources for his income.
deprimiert has been a regular at 100/200 at least as long as ive been. i know that because we started playing 100/200 together buying action from one another because we couldnt effort to play 100/200 on our own back then. we didnt play in the same games we just effectively reduced the stakes to 50/100 whenever a fish was at 100/200
i wont go into detail about him since im not aware of how many people do know who he is and i think he doesnt want it to become public.
ihatejuice has been a breakeven grinder for at least 1 year playing 5/T and T/20 on stars. he eventually made the transition to playing almost HU only and finally was able to improve his game a lot! this guy is a sick grinder too whos playing everybody he thinks he has at least a tiny edge against. from all the highstakes limit players (besides schnibl0r) i do know him the best and this guy is a sicko honestly. he has incredibly high standards towards moral and ethics. from all the people i know through poker he is the least likely to ever do any sort of cheating or abusing. a while ago he stated the selfproclaimed goal of becoming the worlds best FLH HU player and eventually he pretty much got there when you consider results.
i envy him for his mental stability considering the money he wins/loses within pots, sessions, days and weeks. it seems like hes never scared. that is pretty much the main reason he started playing all these super high games so fast. about 1 or 2 years ago i was faaaar ahead of him considering skill and bankroll but i was always effected by the swings and unless i was stuck i couldnt play these super high games even though they were +ev quite often (thinking about the 1k/2k games on stars and FTP). even selling part of my action never made me feel comfortable. he is comfortable and he is playing every game there is and apparantly he has an edge in almost all of them so hes winning.
schnibl0r has been around for years and was the first pokerstrategy-player to play 1k/2k FL HU so he certainly doesnt need any further introduction.
hannes76 has been a 50/100+ reg for years now too but im little surprised how fast he managed to get up in stakes lately. i dont have that much contact with him though and he still plays a lot on the eurosites that i dont play a lot on anymore. hes a sick grinder too i think but this is just guessing, i dont know really
there are also some germans with NL background that have learned how to play against fish (they have HUGE table selection standards usually). these guys are great bumhunters and are trying to squeeze out every possible edge thats why they started to learn FL HU, eg himan33, halozination, lance84 and i guess some more.
ive never heared about the youramaniac guy. someone told me hes a nl pro but im quite sure he at least didnt play on his own but none of the guys i know helped him (at least noone admitted). so i cant tell you anything about him really but he didnt play long anyways.
what you guys seem to forget is that there have been germans all over the place in the highest FL games for years now. i remember the games around david benyamine at FTP 1k/2k. there were at least 4 german guys playing these games: payformyaudis5, axerox, schnibl0r and i guess some others too but im not 100% sure so i wont say names.
there are also some NL players that buy action that made big $$$ on party and ipoker playing nl5k and higher.
i have hardly any contact with jama-dharma. i do have his skype contact but i think i didnt talk more than 20 sentences with him.
neither am i part of that anti-st1ckman channel so i cant tell you anything about it. i also dont play a lot on party anymore so im not involved in the 250/500 game and the 1-player-max-rule (which is good for the game imo since it always looked horribly weird when 5 players are sitting and waiting and all on sitout til a fish joins. the guy joining has to be convinced these guys or bots or whatever hes sitting with are teaming up against him which isnt true but he HAS to believe it when he sees them sitting for hours doing nothing and starting to play as soon as he joins).
what i want to show you is that there is a lot of liquidity within this group of players and there are different guys buying action for each player that joins a table.
of course you can say that this is all non-sense and im just making things up or trying to defend myself or whatever but i can tell you that we:
a) dont pool bankrolls for players playing the same games
b) never talk about hands that are running (of course sometimes someone sends me a handhistory of a cool pot he won or lost or whatever but we never get an advantage by telling each another what hand we did fold or anything while the hand is still going on)
c) dont share complete handhistories (besides the afforementioned unregular hands we send one another)
d) cheat or abuse in any other way
cliffs:
- yes we do know each other and talk via skype
- yes we do buy/sell action from other players
- we never play at the same table when someone has % on another player
- we never collude, cheat or abuse
actually i didnt want to post anything about the accusations at all because i find them just ridicolous but i realized that it might look weird for outsiders that have 0 background information so ill give you a few.
first of all: pretty much all the highstakes players from germany started playing poker with money from pokerstrategy.com. the site is the biggest affiliate/pokerschool in the world. ive been the lead instructor for Fixed Limit for about 3.5 years now so i know that these guys had good practice
besides the fact that we know each other via the forums, nevermore also told you that we get invitations to 3 events per year for one weekend each which helps a lot to get to know each other personally.
i really hope everybody will consider me as a fair player and a regular at the highest stakes for years so i hope my information wont get questioned. (i know i have my chat-tilting issues, but besides that i never did anything particularely bad when it comes to online poker)
1. we dont pool our money or play from the same bankroll
2. we never collude because it wouldnt make sense since everybody who is playing is responsible for his own outcome. while we have respect for each other and sometimes like each other we are still very competitive. would you make accusations about the livepros like phil ivey, durrrr, PA, gus hansen and others that they are teaming up just because they might like each other, do know each other well and play in the same games? hell of course you wouldnt because you know these guys want to destroy everybody in their way and so do we.
3. do you really think we are stupid enough to break any rules considering the fact that we have so much money at risk?
ill also give you some information about where these guys come from.
o fortuna pls is pretty much the sickest grinder ive ever met (besides st1ckman). hes been playing on partypoker exclusively at first and when he first started playing 50/100 i never thought he was going to last since i thought he played horribly but he got so much money from fish sitting and waiting all nights at the 50/100 and 100/200 tables + an enormous amount of rakeback that he was able to play the stakes long enough til he was beating games with just 1 fish. about 2 years ago i guess he started playing on stars and at first had trouble to get a bankroll because its not easy to deposit a lot of money on stars as a new customer using moneybookers/neteller. but he eventually managed to establish himself there and is a very well known winner there too. FTP was the last site he added afaik. he also plays NL so he has lots of sources for his income.
deprimiert has been a regular at 100/200 at least as long as ive been. i know that because we started playing 100/200 together buying action from one another because we couldnt effort to play 100/200 on our own back then. we didnt play in the same games we just effectively reduced the stakes to 50/100 whenever a fish was at 100/200
i wont go into detail about him since im not aware of how many people do know who he is and i think he doesnt want it to become public.
ihatejuice has been a breakeven grinder for at least 1 year playing 5/T and T/20 on stars. he eventually made the transition to playing almost HU only and finally was able to improve his game a lot! this guy is a sick grinder too whos playing everybody he thinks he has at least a tiny edge against. from all the highstakes limit players (besides schnibl0r) i do know him the best and this guy is a sicko honestly. he has incredibly high standards towards moral and ethics. from all the people i know through poker he is the least likely to ever do any sort of cheating or abusing. a while ago he stated the selfproclaimed goal of becoming the worlds best FLH HU player and eventually he pretty much got there when you consider results.
i envy him for his mental stability considering the money he wins/loses within pots, sessions, days and weeks. it seems like hes never scared. that is pretty much the main reason he started playing all these super high games so fast. about 1 or 2 years ago i was faaaar ahead of him considering skill and bankroll but i was always effected by the swings and unless i was stuck i couldnt play these super high games even though they were +ev quite often (thinking about the 1k/2k games on stars and FTP). even selling part of my action never made me feel comfortable. he is comfortable and he is playing every game there is and apparantly he has an edge in almost all of them so hes winning.
schnibl0r has been around for years and was the first pokerstrategy-player to play 1k/2k FL HU so he certainly doesnt need any further introduction.
hannes76 has been a 50/100+ reg for years now too but im little surprised how fast he managed to get up in stakes lately. i dont have that much contact with him though and he still plays a lot on the eurosites that i dont play a lot on anymore. hes a sick grinder too i think but this is just guessing, i dont know really
there are also some germans with NL background that have learned how to play against fish (they have HUGE table selection standards usually). these guys are great bumhunters and are trying to squeeze out every possible edge thats why they started to learn FL HU, eg himan33, halozination, lance84 and i guess some more.
ive never heared about the youramaniac guy. someone told me hes a nl pro but im quite sure he at least didnt play on his own but none of the guys i know helped him (at least noone admitted). so i cant tell you anything about him really but he didnt play long anyways.
what you guys seem to forget is that there have been germans all over the place in the highest FL games for years now. i remember the games around david benyamine at FTP 1k/2k. there were at least 4 german guys playing these games: payformyaudis5, axerox, schnibl0r and i guess some others too but im not 100% sure so i wont say names.
there are also some NL players that buy action that made big $$$ on party and ipoker playing nl5k and higher.
i have hardly any contact with jama-dharma. i do have his skype contact but i think i didnt talk more than 20 sentences with him.
neither am i part of that anti-st1ckman channel so i cant tell you anything about it. i also dont play a lot on party anymore so im not involved in the 250/500 game and the 1-player-max-rule (which is good for the game imo since it always looked horribly weird when 5 players are sitting and waiting and all on sitout til a fish joins. the guy joining has to be convinced these guys or bots or whatever hes sitting with are teaming up against him which isnt true but he HAS to believe it when he sees them sitting for hours doing nothing and starting to play as soon as he joins).
what i want to show you is that there is a lot of liquidity within this group of players and there are different guys buying action for each player that joins a table.
of course you can say that this is all non-sense and im just making things up or trying to defend myself or whatever but i can tell you that we:
a) dont pool bankrolls for players playing the same games
b) never talk about hands that are running (of course sometimes someone sends me a handhistory of a cool pot he won or lost or whatever but we never get an advantage by telling each another what hand we did fold or anything while the hand is still going on)
c) dont share complete handhistories (besides the afforementioned unregular hands we send one another)
d) cheat or abuse in any other way
cliffs:
- yes we do know each other and talk via skype
- yes we do buy/sell action from other players
- we never play at the same table when someone has % on another player
- we never collude, cheat or abuse
Quote:
fair enough, ill try to explain it to you.
ive been playing against ted forrest about 1 year ago. it was hu at i guess 500/1k and the guy was, well lets say not good considering these stakes. otterkopf won a ******** of money from him playing HU because for some reason ted always joined him...
so obviously the most important reason i havent been playing this high for a few months is that the games were 80% malestra pam, otterkopf, o fortuna pls, din fru, ihatejuice, deprimiert only. and these guys are all awefully tought to play against obviously.
its true that i didnt want to play higher than 100/200 anymore but actually i dont care that much about variance at the moment. it might sound weird but playing some plo5k HU, having a lot more to do besides poker in general at the moment and having a lot of contact with ihatejuice who has some kind of influence on me with his mindset of just not caring about swings at all helped me to not be THAT affected by the swings. besides that i can tell you that i only had 10% of my action and sold the rest. 300/600 is still high for me but even with very tight BRM-standards i can easily play this high.
the same applies for schnibl0r i guess, but i dont know exactly about his present situation. it seems like hes been playing very high mixed games and 2-7 TD and plo40k lately so he certainly has a decent roll + stakers that are convinced he has an edge in that game.
for me personally i can say: i think 4-6 handed there wasnt a single guy i would consider playing better than me. IHJ hasnt played a lot ringgame at all. schnibl0r played a lot of tables and doesnt play that much limit holdem at all anymore. i wont go into detail about st1ckman because he certainly reads it but im convinced i have an edge on him. well and teddy boy was the fish so obviously i was the best player at that table ;D
ive been playing against ted forrest about 1 year ago. it was hu at i guess 500/1k and the guy was, well lets say not good considering these stakes. otterkopf won a ******** of money from him playing HU because for some reason ted always joined him...
so obviously the most important reason i havent been playing this high for a few months is that the games were 80% malestra pam, otterkopf, o fortuna pls, din fru, ihatejuice, deprimiert only. and these guys are all awefully tought to play against obviously.
its true that i didnt want to play higher than 100/200 anymore but actually i dont care that much about variance at the moment. it might sound weird but playing some plo5k HU, having a lot more to do besides poker in general at the moment and having a lot of contact with ihatejuice who has some kind of influence on me with his mindset of just not caring about swings at all helped me to not be THAT affected by the swings. besides that i can tell you that i only had 10% of my action and sold the rest. 300/600 is still high for me but even with very tight BRM-standards i can easily play this high.
the same applies for schnibl0r i guess, but i dont know exactly about his present situation. it seems like hes been playing very high mixed games and 2-7 TD and plo40k lately so he certainly has a decent roll + stakers that are convinced he has an edge in that game.
for me personally i can say: i think 4-6 handed there wasnt a single guy i would consider playing better than me. IHJ hasnt played a lot ringgame at all. schnibl0r played a lot of tables and doesnt play that much limit holdem at all anymore. i wont go into detail about st1ckman because he certainly reads it but im convinced i have an edge on him. well and teddy boy was the fish so obviously i was the best player at that table ;D
01-03-2011
, 10:25 AM
