I made my offer to play that game with Piranha and anyone else.

I don't feel a need to defend myself, I've done nothing wrong. But to appease you Jama, I don't remember the hand or hands you're talking about. I'm going to assume that he sat out, I sat out afterwards, he sat back in, and I sat back which moved the button. I've never angled that situation intentionally and never would.

Like I said, feel free to start a separate thread about me and I've already asked Baard to have Poker Stars investigate my play. I have nothing to hide, unlike you.

Huh, check your hands history then.

He was willing to play, you sat out, I joined to finish him off HU and you immediately came back to play free hand.

I think what you should have done is to ask pokerstars to make clear instructions what is acceptable and what is not in different situations.

Instead you called me names and berated me in chat. Then you played some extra hands in a game with malibu.uz and made this post.

Bravo.

You may want to provide some evidence that you're not abusing the system instead of attacking me. I'm assuming you don't have any though so that's what you've resorted to. I won't be responding again to anything involving me, there's no need to.

So far you've admitted that you angle the seat that assures you the button when a game starts. You've also admitted that you only play a few orbits if the game is bad.

What about the fact that you rarely if ever join a table at 30/60 or below yet sit at them to start a game every day? Surely there are some juicy lower limit games or some games you can get 6-max "practice" in at. So why aren't you joining tables?

It's crystal clear what you're doing and it's gross. My hope is that more evidence from other high volume players is presented in this thread. You're essentially stealing tens of thousands of dollars from recreational and regular players alike.

It's crystal clear you have double standards.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED

gogogogogogogogo

you're playing 52% more buttons than other positions (on average), you are a cheating piece of ****

A friend sent me some advice on how to better prove what Jama is doing. I will post this tonight provided I can figure out how to attach things. Also another high volume player should be posting some screenshots from his database that shows how many buttons Jama has stolen in his games.

A man without arms could count on his hands the number of times you have sat in a tough game the last 3 years. While you can make challenges on 2p2 your actions speak louder than words.

But now that the Jama is a huge bum hunter has been pointed out, let's get back on track to the subject at hand....Jama is a cheater.

Carry on

Pretty obvious that Jama is doing something unethical. On the other hand, he´s making advantage of a fault in the system that´s making him a lot of money without actually cheating.
Ofcourse it's cheating, but the system is letting him do so and it's not illegal. It's scummy, but you can't really blame Jama for finding a fault in the system and abuse it.

It would be totally nuts though, if PokerStars wouldn´t randomize their button distribution from now on.

I'm 100% sure that I've seen a thread here on 2+2 where someone had way too many button plays vs blinds and got warned or even temp-banned...
But finding that thread/post will be a bit hard.

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5559/3handed.png

I am obviously quite bad at clicking the sit out next bb button. The next time anybody complains about me playing too slow I will point out that I am probably getting buttoned more than anyone so deal with it. I have reported desktop in the past. His results do not surprise me. I just don't think these two should be allowed to sit by themselves. The randomizing of the button does not solve the problem. I think Stars could come up with these ratios themselves and make the table start with the person who has the lowest ratio start with the button. It would be nice to get some of the money that I've been cheated out of back.

Hopefully these images post:

Here are the hands in my DB that Jama has played filtered by number of players:

3-handed:



He's played more than double the amount of buttons as blinds

4-Handed:



To see how many free hands he's played free here, it's his cutoff + button hands - 2* his BB hands. 367-210 = 157

5-Handed:



Free hands here it's his middle+cutoff+button - 3*BB = (336+268+242) - (3*248) = 102

6-Handed:



Free hands here: early+middle+cutoff+button - 4*bb = (593+533+512+512) - (4*509) = 2150 - 2036 = 114

It's not just you, it's everyone, losing tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars to these thieves. Thanks for posting.

This

I want you to calculate how much money you've stolen from the community and return it. Once you've done that we can play 10,000 hands of 200/400 3-handed with any regular that wants to play.

And PlsFold/Unguarded,

Thank you. I really don't want that responsibility to be honest. I kill myself playing twelve hours a day to make SNE in order to take the last three months of the year off. The last thing I want to do is be policing these games. Unfortunately that's what it seems to have come to, I'm probably sending an average of an email a day to highstakes about somebody abusing the system in some way. It really shouldn't be like this.

Wow, wow, wow... those numbers are pretty shocking, thanks guys!

It makes it look like Jama's whole game is just button abuse.

Tpir, I mainly just wish Stars would take your threads/emails extremely seriously and for the most part, just take your word on this stuff. I don't mean for you to have a 2nd job... I certainly wouldn't want that responsibility either. I'll try to help more on this stuff now that I am kinda back.

And Spidey, I agree that randomizing the button won't completely solve the problem. I know of a player who does this at Commerce.

Fwiw, my BTN:BB ratio is .91... interesting stat! It sucks that those of you who try hardest to keep games going and are willing to sit in tough games have to suffer the most.

didn't read everything yet, just wanted to point out that on the new Ultimate Poker software when you sit first in at a table and another player join, u each get a card dealt to you and thats how you determine who will be the btn. that doesn't seem like a hard thing to apply imo. (hell , their software is really bad, thats the only fair thing in it).

If this was implemented they would probably just sit out if they lost the high card for button.

Some more data from my HEM DB:

Jama's average session length at 50/100+ is 18.2 hands. His average session length at 30/60 and below is 8.3 hands.

Ha yeah I wish that as well. Part of the reason I hate doing it is taking the screen captures, attaching them, and typing the email while trying to play 4-5 tables. I wish I could just say Player X broke Y rule. But I don't really think anyone playing should have that much power including me considering it could get someones account suspended. It'd sure be nice though.

And yes, I firmly believe a large part of Jama's success is due to abusing the system. I've played quite a bit with him and in my estimation, he'd be about a breakeven player in typical 6-max games that run from 10-20 to 100-200. If he were just to bumhunt mega-recreational players, then he'd probably be in the 1 BB/100 range. Start every table with the button, only play with mega rec players at high limits, with position on mega rec players at middle limits, or else leave the table within two orbits, now you're probably looking at a win rate of 2-3 BB/100, possibly even higher considering how thoroughly he's abusing the system.

I just estimated based on Tpir's database that Jama is earning at least an extra .8 BB/100 by dodging so many blinds, and that's based on 3-6 handed play.

And of course, his bankroll requirement and variance is going to be very low.

At 3-4 handed, it looks much worse... somewhere between an extra 2.5 and 3 BB/100.

I was slightly skeptical at first, but this is starting to look like an entire strategy built around stealing buttons.




I just thought of another exploit he may be using... is it possible that he purposely times out/sits out if he sees that 2+ players aren't going to join the table before the game starts? We obviously can't figure that out by looking at databases, but maybe some of you have observed this.