even with the filter showing stakes played?

its said to hear tht ppl might fix these to make themselves look better :s.

what kind of WR do you think is achievable at say, 50 or 100nl fr zoom?

Yeah graphs are far too easy to fix. So although PTR getting stopped is good for things like HU its bad for anyone who wanted to try and verify someones results.

Its hard to say on WR but to get some idea some of the more respected coaches will have results for Rush published but really thats the only thing to go on because the best players simply dont post results. I would hazard a guess and say good players will be at about 2BB for Nl100 and only the very best achieving more.

For normal games i wouldnt be surprised to see double that tbh. Im not sure how the Rush and Zoom games compare when it comes to Rakeback and stuff because that could give an idea of how tough the games are. If theres no benefit in playing Zoom games i suspect most of the better players would stick to the likely softer regular games.

ahh ok, why the big difference in WR for zoom compared to normal tables? RB is about the same i think.

this basically sums up the last 2/3 days of grinding for me, i dnt think ive ever run this bad, yesterday i was up 6 BI only to hit a 10 BI downswing running 6 BI's below EV. so frustrating :/.

Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $14.42
SB: $12.97
Hero (BB): $31.47
UTG: $5.25
UTG+1: $10.00
UTG+2: $15.30
MP1: $11.42
MP2: $4.90
CO: $11.97

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with T K
5 folds, CO raises to $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.95) 9 7 J (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.50, BTN folds, Hero raises to $1.60, CO calls $1.10

Turn: ($4.15) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $2.57, CO calls $2.57

River: ($9.29) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $27.00, CO calls $7.50 all in

Final Pot: $24.29
Hero shows T K
CO shows Q A
CO wins $23.20
(Rake: $1.09)

edit: adding more

another horrible spot.

Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN): $16.00
SB: $5.20
BB: $10.00
UTG: $21.75
UTG+1: $10.00
UTG+2: $11.55
MP1: $10.82
MP2: $13.09
CO: $16.47

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with 7 8
6 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, 1 fold, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) 6 4 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.50, BB calls $0.50

Turn: ($1.65) 8 (2 players)
BB bets $9.20, Hero calls $9.20

River: ($20.05) K (2 players)

Final Pot: $20.05
Hero shows 7 8
BB shows 7 9
BB wins $19.15
(Rake: $0.90)









Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $9.90
SB: $3.84
BB: $10.58
UTG: $4.60
UTG+1: $19.48
UTG+2: $5.36
MP1: $5.00
MP2: $10.22
Hero (CO): $11.43

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with 6 5
2 folds, UTG+2 raises to $0.20, MP1 calls $0.20, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.20, BTN calls $0.20, 1 fold, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($1.05) 2 5 6 (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $0.80, BTN raises to $2.70, BB folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, Hero raises to $11.23, BTN calls $7 all in

Turn: ($20.45) J (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($20.45) 9 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $20.45
BTN shows 6 6
Hero shows 6 5
BTN wins $19.53
(Rake: $0.92)










Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $10.20
SB: $9.57
BB: $8.50
UTG: $19.26
UTG+1: $9.25
UTG+2: $5.33
MP1: $5.09
Hero (MP2): $28.15
CO: $7.04

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP2 with K Q
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, CO raises to $0.70, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.55) 9 J 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.40, Hero raises to $27.45, CO calls $5.94 all in

Turn: ($14.23) T (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($14.23) 7 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $14.23
Hero shows K Q
CO shows J A
CO wins $13.59
(Rake: $0.64)

I think the difference in win rates comes from table selection. Where as Zoom you might play the odd hand with a fish if you are lucky, a good table selector is going to be playing hand after hand with the fish that are sat at the table which for me goes a long way to explaining why its a lot easier to achieve a better win rate at the normal tables.

It also saddens me to think that a fish might fold J5o in the zoom games because he will be dealt J9s before long.

I guess if you are an excellent player then its not going to matter as much because you win own the regs just the same as the fish.

KTs hand i think thats a great spot to squeeze as a bluff, pretty meh over a call. think you can bet more on the turn and then river is just a cooler.

78 hand not much you can do although personally i dont 3x the btn without good reason.

65 i think is very close on the flop. I dont expect someone to have a hand like 99 and be raising it in this spot in to so many people.

KQ probably only calling pre because of the sizing of the 3bet. Dont like the check/shove it just lets him play almost perfectly especially when hes giving us the chance of another card really cheaply. Its still a 3bet pot after all and his range should be quite strong.

KQ hand, villain was a 3bet maniac, like 5 hands nd already 66% 3bet.

65 hand i wasnt over happy about but with 2/4 6s nd 5s sets seem unlikely?

Yh i dnt thnk c/shving is great but i dnt thnk its terrible either, im sre he can call with so mch worse nd our hand is never going to be in terrible shape

after giving it some thought and the way martl put it with WR's, i see no reason to continue playing zoom.

table selecting = higher WR,
i can get the same hands/hr playing 16 tables.
vpp rates are higher as well

normal tables it is!

MartL makes a good point about zoom and table selecting and fishes, I also quit playing zoom 2 days ago.

I just realized that even my hud stats in zoom are random because they never actually reflect person true stats given that I see villain on my table once in while.

who said it first?

as for the hands:

i kinda prefer squeezing a hand like this cuz multiway it sucks hairy balls other than that postflop everything is fine. no need to bet bigger OTT cuz u wanna get called

78 i think is a fold. at best u re splitting, worse u re getting freerolled at worst he has the hand he has. u surely arent gonna win the pot 50ish% which u d need for those odds so despite it bing lol i think folding is in order

65s: again its lol but u bet big into a multiway pot and get raised 3.5x. time to let go of anything that isnt a set or better

KQ: meh.

yeah zoom sucks hard, can't believe i ever thoguht it was better than normal tables, thers literally no benefits to it :s.

haha your a crusher, i will listen to you more often .

Thanks.

10nl is going well so far, im up $54.15 in 3818 hands, 3.5 BI's below EV as well. it's ridiculous how soft the games actually are.

on another note, im also realising how much ive actually learnt from zoom, before i would play 14/12 - 15/13 at normal fr tables and now im playing 21/18.

$+77.72 in 4557 hands, bored already, want to be playing 25nl/50nl again..

Just read through the whole thread also made a challenge from 10nl to 1000nl (why not aim big) i only a few days in but this thread has been a lot of help already cant wait until i finish college and can grind like you 1week to go. Anyways good luck at table and hopefully you move up the stakes pretty quickly.

Plus a question i am only playing 4 tables so i can think through every hand, so how many buy ins would you recommend i need before taking a shot at 16nl was gonna take a 5 buyin shot when i get 20 buy ins? And also do you think that 16nl is worth playing as you previously said that it is reg infested?

soz for long message
gl at tables

i was playing 50nl until i cashed out so it shouldnt take me long to get back there.

are you playing FR? play as many tables as your comfortable with until you dont find yourself struggling with decisions anymore.

therell come a point where u can just play and not have to stop and think for ages about what to do, itll jst feel natural.

imo, 20 BI's, take a 5 BI shot is good brm.

i didnt bother with 16nl and i dnt plan to either, it never runs, it jst doesnt seem worth it. but thts not to say you might not be profitable there.

its way more +EV in the long term to jsut move up and take shots regularly, id even go as far to say that when u have 17/18 BI's, taking a 2/3 BI shot is fine, jst cos if your confident you'll be successful and ofc when u move up its such a huge jump in profit, moving from 10 to 25nl isnt that hard at all, theres a very small difference but its 2.5x the money and ofc vpp/fpp increases etc are like 60% as well.

id rather you post a wall of text than nothing at all

thanks, gl to you as well!!

benefit is that during off-peak times during the week zoom seems to have more easy money floating around. it is however pretty detrimental for the overall game and anybody looking to improve as a player should probably learnt to table select well and get player specific reads quickly

however if we approach zoom from a 'make-the-most-$$$' perspective it can certainly teach us a thing or two, most of which have to do with steals and resteals which imo are probly the biggest moneymakers in zoom poker

21/18 at nl10 sounds pretty decent gogogo

yeah i think for the moment i am done with zoom but you make the same point i was thinking about, that if the games aren't that great, zoom is a good alternative.

have 18.4 BI's for 25nl so im going to take a 3.4 BI shot, if i drop to $375 then ill move back down but i cant see that happening, games are too soft yo.

ill take shots at 50nl at 17-20 BI's, i really like the idea of jst taking 2-3 BI shots here and there but obv dnt want to think too far ahead, 25nl first .

gl all!