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Old 07-27-2012, 02:25 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laura C View Post
No offense taken. Yes, 500k and still losing. LOL Acutually, for the first year I had no clue at all! Just played knowing nothing. I was getting better and learning. Then black friday ... now definitely going to learn more.

Yes, I imported just over 11k hands into PT. However, that is total hands. The amount of hands I played from the BB is 2,196 and is -60.29 BB/100. The SB is 2,181 hands and -40.82 BB/100. No kidding. BAD!!!

I am winning from MP and CO. 32.44 BB/100 and 10.24 BB/100 respectively but have played less than 2,000 hands from both positions (1,700 and 1,900). Maybe I feel the need to defend the blinds a bit too much?
Just wanted to point out that although they are poor win rates from the blinds, they aren't as bad as they may look. If you folded every hand out of the blinds you would lose at 100bb/100 and 50bb/100, for BB and SB respectively. But, try and get it down over time to 50bb/100 when you combine the two.
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Old 07-27-2012, 02:52 PM   #17
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Re: To Be A Winning Player - Is That Too Much To Ask??? (First Post)

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Originally Posted by BornToRun View Post
Just wanted to point out that although they are poor win rates from the blinds, they aren't as bad as they may look. If you folded every hand out of the blinds you would lose at 100bb/100 and 50bb/100, for BB and SB respectively. But, try and get it down over time to 50bb/100 when you combine the two.
Forgive me if I am completely missing something here, but wouldn't those numbers only hold true if you paid a BB and SB every single hand? At a 6-max I only pay the blinds once every 6 hands or 16BB/100 and 8BB/100. Is this correct?

Last edited by Laura C; 07-27-2012 at 02:54 PM. Reason: Grammar correction
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Old 07-27-2012, 03:24 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Laura C View Post
Forgive me if I am completely missing something here, but wouldn't those numbers only hold true if you paid a BB and SB every single hand? At a 6-max I only pay the blinds once every 6 hands or 16BB/100 and 8BB/100. Is this correct?
Technically when looking at your BB and SB stats you are paying them every hand because the stats are filtered for hands just from those positions.
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Old 07-27-2012, 03:57 PM   #19
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Re: To Be A Winning Player - Is That Too Much To Ask??? (First Post)

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Originally Posted by BornToRun View Post
Just wanted to point out that although they are poor win rates from the blinds, they aren't as bad as they may look. If you folded every hand out of the blinds you would lose at 100bb/100 and 50bb/100, for BB and SB respectively. But, try and get it down over time to 50bb/100 when you combine the two.
This is actually bad because, PT uses BB and 1BB=2bb so the blind loss rates when folded are SB=25BB/100 and BB=50BB/100. But at the moment, without any further information, the sample is too small to make any conclusions.
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Old 07-27-2012, 04:14 PM   #20
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Re: To Be A Winning Player - Is That Too Much To Ask??? (First Post)

I'm not a cash game player so it isn't surprising I got that wrong.
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:41 PM   #21
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Re: To Be A Winning Player - Is That Too Much To Ask??? (First Post)

Hi there, this is my first post here, I've been wanting to make a thread like this for awhile. I'll be following yours, good luck!
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Old 07-27-2012, 07:33 PM   #22
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Re: To Be A Winning Player - Is That Too Much To Ask??? (First Post)

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Originally Posted by BornToRun View Post
Technically when looking at your BB and SB stats you are paying them every hand because the stats are filtered for hands just from those positions.
Oh, yeah. Duh! Got it.
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Old 07-27-2012, 07:36 PM   #23
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Re: To Be A Winning Player - Is That Too Much To Ask??? (First Post)

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Originally Posted by hugojustice View Post
Hi there, this is my first post here, I've been wanting to make a thread like this for awhile. I'll be following yours, good luck!
Well thanks hugo. Nice to know someone will follow; especially since this micro crap I'm doing with such a small goal will probably bore many.

If you start a thread I will follow yours too. Okay, time to go play ...
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:10 PM   #24
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Re: To Be A Winning Player - Is That Too Much To Ask??? (First Post)

Played for 3 hours tonight. It was a very up and down session.

Start BR: 158.94
Loss: 3.29

Ending BR: 155.65

Am going to post some hands ...
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:25 PM   #25
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Re: To Be A Winning Player - Is That Too Much To Ask??? (First Post)

I was 2-tabling and lost a buy-in at one table rather early in the session. Very shortly after that I lost two more buy-ins at the same table. Tilt? Trying to force things?

Merge Game #58960869-126 | Holdem NL ($0.02/$0.04) | 2012/07/27 20:53:18 -0400
Table Santiago XI (58960869), Seats 6
Seat 1: ClubTheRiver ($7.05 in chips)
Seat 2: MiniMuska308 ($5.92 in chips)
Seat 3: werd2u ($7.27 in chips)
Seat 4: Blantons ($4.82 in chips) DEALER
Seat 5: AdappMedia99 ($3.02 in chips)
Seat 6: luvminuts ($8.50 in chips)
AdappMedia99: Post SB $0.02
luvminuts: Post BB $0.04
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ClubTheRiver [Ah Ac]
ClubTheRiver: Raise $0.08
MiniMuska308: Fold
werd2u: Fold
Blantons: Fold
AdappMedia99: Fold
luvminuts: Call $0.04
*** FLOP *** [Ts Js 8h]
luvminuts: Bet $0.12
ClubTheRiver: Raise $0.54
luvminuts: Call $0.42
*** TURN *** [7h]
luvminuts: Bet $0.84
ClubTheRiver: Call $0.84
*** RIVER *** [8c]
luvminuts: Bet $2.20
ClubTheRiver: Call $2.20
*** SUMMARY ***
luvminuts: Shows [5s 9s]
ClubTheRiver: Mucks [Ah Ac]
luvminuts: wins $6.98

Lost my first buy-in with this hand. I min raised preflop because the table was very tight and folding to pretty much all my preflop raises.

Two hands later.

Merge Game #58960869-127 | Holdem NL ($0.02/$0.04) | 2012/07/27 20:54:25 -0400
Table Santiago XI (58960869), Seats 6
Seat 1: ClubTheRiver ($3.39 in chips)
Seat 2: MiniMuska308 ($5.92 in chips)
Seat 3: werd2u ($7.27 in chips)
Seat 4: Blantons ($4.82 in chips)
Seat 5: AdappMedia99 ($3.00 in chips) DEALER
Seat 6: luvminuts ($11.82 in chips)
luvminuts: Post SB $0.02
ClubTheRiver: Post BB $0.04
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ClubTheRiver [8h 8s]
MiniMuska308: Raise $0.16
werd2u: Fold
Blantons: Fold
AdappMedia99: Fold
luvminuts: Fold
ClubTheRiver: Raise $0.50
MiniMuska308: Raise $1.82
ClubTheRiver: Allin $2.89
MiniMuska308: Call $1.57
*** FLOP *** [As 5h Td]
*** TURN *** [7d]
*** RIVER *** [Kc]
*** SUMMARY ***
ClubTheRiver: Shows [8h 8s]
MiniMuska308: Shows [Ah Ad]
MiniMuska308: wins $6.46

I think I am just trying to force something here to get that buy-in back quickly. I really feel that is one of my biggest downfalls. I tilt so easy sometimes ... sometimes not. Shortly after that hand.

Merge Game #58960869-135 | Holdem NL ($0.02/$0.04) | 2012/07/27 20:58:13 -0400
Table Santiago XI (58960869), Seats 6
Seat 1: ClubTheRiver ($3.94 in chips) DEALER
Seat 2: MiniMuska308 ($8.99 in chips)
Seat 3: werd2u ($7.27 in chips)
Seat 4: Blantons ($4.78 in chips)
Seat 5: AdappMedia99 ($3.12 in chips)
Seat 6: luvminuts ($11.72 in chips)
MiniMuska308: Post SB $0.02
werd2u: Post BB $0.04
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ClubTheRiver [Th Tc]
Blantons: Fold
AdappMedia99: Fold
luvminuts: Raise $0.11
ClubTheRiver: Raise $0.39
MiniMuska308: Fold
werd2u: Fold
luvminuts: Raise $1.23
ClubTheRiver: Allin $3.55
luvminuts: Call $2.71
*** FLOP *** [6h 7s 9h]
*** TURN *** [6d]
*** RIVER *** [Ks]
*** SUMMARY ***
ClubTheRiver: Shows [Th Tc]
luvminuts: Shows [Qh Qs]
luvminuts: wins $7.55

This was less than five minutes after the last shove with a low pair. Ugh! I normally would fold to a re-raise here pre-flop - even with TT. Just want to get that $$ back quick when it goes.

I managed to battle back to about even and was getting ready to end the session, but then lost another pretty large hand. Played some more but reached the 3-hour mark and decided to quit.

Have lots more hands I wish I could post for feedback, but I am tired ...

Sorry! I did not know the hand format would look like that. My history folders on my computer are empty??!!! Don't know why. Copied and pasted form PT and thought it was converted.

Last edited by Laura C; 07-27-2012 at 11:32 PM. Reason: Add text
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Old 07-28-2012, 12:14 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Love View Post
This is actually bad because, PT uses BB and 1BB=2bb so the blind loss rates when folded are SB=25BB/100 and BB=50BB/100. But at the moment, without any further information, the sample is too small to make any conclusions.
Haha how is it bad if I clearly wrote bb and not BB?
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Old 07-28-2012, 12:40 AM   #27
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Re: To Be A Winning Player - Is That Too Much To Ask??? (First Post)

Here I will fix your hands for you into a more readable format, less data but enough for feedback to be possible.

Hand 1

Hero dealt A A UTG.
Hero raises to $0.08.
4 folds.
BB calls.

Flop ($0.17) J T 8
BB bets $0.12.
Hero raises to $0.54.
BB calls.

Turn ($1.25) 7
BB bets $0.84.
Hero calls.

River ($3.89) 8
BB bets $2.20.
Hero calls.
___________________________________

You should cut out the results if you want help on a hand, because if others read the results then their advice will be results oriented. Also, you should never really care about the results yourself because you should be looking for the best possible line of actions through the streets against a villain regardless of what he actually has. You play against the range of hands that he has against the hand or range of hands that you play, and try to make the most profitable choices against his tendencies to exploit him for his mistakes.

Anyway! For this hand, my advice is this:
- Raise more preflop, minraising is bad in almost all situations.
- Raise less on the flop, to $0.36 would have been better. Typically I will raise 3x as a default, though there are several reasons to bet other sizes in certain situations.
- Turn completes one obvious draw and he takes the lead, folding there is probably a good idea.
- River is a blank, so if you call the turn you have to call the river.

Hand 2

This hand is just spewy, 88 is definitely not a good hand for 4bet/5bet situations. Unless your villain is a super maniac, you don't want to be playing like that, your 3bet is also marginal but okay, though once he raises you have to let it go.

Hand 3

Another preflop allin hand, in this one I don't think you should be 4bet shoving TT against a villain unless you have seen (with your HUD) that their 3bet range is loose. Most villains will 3bet a tight range that is often ahead of TT. Calling to setmine would probably have been a better option, though the villain is fairly shortstacked you could have decided to 4bet or fold based on his 3bet stats. If you don't have a lot of stats on him, fold or shove based on how high his pfr is.

_________________________________________

As a side note, I'm glad you moved down to 4nl. That was a smart choice as that gives you about 40 buyins. I personally go with a roughly 50 buyin minimum for the stakes that I choose to play (currently I am in 10nl).

I'm really glad that I found your thread because I would like to help you as much as I can! I remember when I was learning and struggling, and it took me a long time to improve and get better because I didn't have any direct help from others. I read threads and guides but had to try things out and learn from trial and error. I think that this is a good way to learn for anybody but that if you have some help, this process can go soooo much faster.

Anyway, I would be happy to help as much as I can! I will be following this thread and will be happy to give any advice based on anything you post in the thread.

Just from looking at what you have written, I have some input. I don't know if these are for sure accurate observations but they may be helpful.

- It looks like you might need to some basic "standard" play to try and remove a lot of small leaks from your game.
- I would recommend you learn standard preflop bet sizing, raise sizing, and tighten up your preflop raising and shoving ranges.
- I would recommend you learn standard postflop bet and raise sizing.
- Use your HUD stats (and if you don't know which ones to use, feel free to ask or research) to put villains on ranges and play accordingly.
- Buy into a game for full 100bb and have it set to rebuy to full if you ever drop below.

Feel free to private message me if you would like any help with some of these types of things.
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Old 07-28-2012, 02:10 AM   #28
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Re: To Be A Winning Player - Is That Too Much To Ask??? (First Post)

Hello OP first of all i wish you good luck in you're journey and if i may ask a minute of you're time please read my thread also it is very similar (we could be brothers) haha!!

Will follow!
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:45 AM   #29
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Re: To Be A Winning Player - Is That Too Much To Ask??? (First Post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlongjohnson View Post
Here I will fix your hands for you into a more readable format, less data but enough for feedback to be possible.

Hand 1

Hero dealt A A UTG.
Hero raises to $0.08.
4 folds.
BB calls.

Flop ($0.17) J T 8
BB bets $0.12.
Hero raises to $0.54.
BB calls.

Turn ($1.25) 7
BB bets $0.84.
Hero calls.

River ($3.89) 8
BB bets $2.20.
Hero calls.
___________________________________

You should cut out the results if you want help on a hand, because if others read the results then their advice will be results oriented. Also, you should never really care about the results yourself because you should be looking for the best possible line of actions through the streets against a villain regardless of what he actually has.
Yes, that copy and pasting is a mess - everyone's name showing and all. Are my hand histories not in my computer files because they went into PT? That didn't happen last time I posted hands, but this time my folders were empty - no hand histories in them.

Bet sizing - yes, I need help! I will review some of the literature and try to stick to the standards but I do like to mix it up preflop sometimes so my hand is not so predictable. Is that a bad idea at my level?

Pocket 8s and pocket 10s hands were classic tilt for me. I am WAY, WAY, WAY too results oriented and it is one of the first things I learned when I started reading threads on here.

Thanks for your feedback!!!
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Old 07-28-2012, 12:48 PM   #30
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Re: To Be A Winning Player - Is That Too Much To Ask??? (First Post)

For preflop bet sizing there are usually a few general schools of thought.

If you are the first person to act, (it has folded to you), then you are going to bet somewhere between 2bb and 4bb. If people have limped, then you need to raise more. This is because nobody is going to fold after limping if you just raise to 3bb or something like that.

A good general rule of thumb is to raise 3bb + 1bb per limper and +1bb if OOP. So if you are first to raise, 3bb, if there are 2 limpers, 3bb + 2bb = 5bb. If you are OOP with 3 limpers, 3bb + 3bb + 1bb = 7bb.

This allows you to bet the same with all of your hands while still betting in a way that makes sense. It makes sense in that with any hand that you choose to play, you can win the blinds without contest, or you can force the limpers to make a decision about folding or continuing before the flop (if they fold that is usually the most profitable for you, ez money!!!).

Making variations of bet sizing for different hands can disguise your hand, but also make you lose money if you raise a lot with a weak hand without good reason. Using the same formula for all hands also disguises your hand but allows you to bet more intelligently and appropriately for the situation.

Another factor for bet sizing preflop is how heavily weighted your preflop range is. If it is mostly value hands like premiums, you want to bet more. If your range is really wide and contains a lot of weak hands, you want to bet less. But you want to bet the same with your whole range. So lets say you are playing the top 10% of hands, you might want to bet 4bb, while if you are playing like 30% you might do 2bb. The more air in the range, the lower you want your bets to be in order to lose less when being raised.

Also, if you are in early position, you can either tighten up and keep betting the same as you do in later positions, or change from 3bb to a 2bb raise and play a slightly wider range.

For 3betting (raising someones original raise when preflop), you want to do this with premiums. Something like TT+ and AQ+. Usually you will raise 3x the original bet, + 1x per caller + 1x if oop. So if someone bets 12 and you raise, go to 36. If someone bets 20 and has 2 callers, raise to 3x + 2x = 100. If someone bets 100 and has 3 callers and you are in the big blind, raise to 3x + 3x + 1x = 700.

Make sure to look at the player who raised to see his PFR stat. If it is very tight, you need to 3bet them very tight. For example, if someone has a PFR of 5 to 10 percent, then 3betting them with AQ+/TT+ (which is about 5%) is a little loose. If someone has a PFR of 30 to 40%, then AQ+/TT+ would be 3bet hands every time and you might even add more hands to 3bet with.
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