This is really really cool...subbed and jealous

subbed. I am also including Spin'n'Gos (3$ ones) in my daily sessions, however playing mainly HT FR STTs, so my volume of Spins will be a lot lower. Very interested in how this works out for you over the large sample.
GL.

Hehe interesting challenge.. I've played a couple of them and seem very soft. Some pretty ridiculous plays.. Some people even seem to shove 100% in the beginning just for the sake of gambol (at $7's)

yeah, super soft they just require lots of volume and a good mind set.

How to put in mass volume if you limited to 5 table

Lol, i was donkin around in these earlier today and in 31 games I hit the jackpot 1000 buy in, didn't win though.

Gl, i've already found them very, very tilting

You can play more then 5 it only limits you to load 5 at once but once them 5 are open you can open another 5 so that's 10 and so on.

pretty easy, find out how many chips you win per game,

total prize pool(without the rake)/1500 * chips/game+500 ) minus total buyin is whatever you make per game in ev . then just compare with whatever you make i guess

Very nice because I just heard ev chips/game is supposed to converge pretty quickly. Without giving it much thought I was expecting it to require an enormous sample size to estimate player ev. Small consolation tho for giving up any sort of bubble. :/

Your not limited to 5, you can only open 5 at once.

The spin&gos have such an insane variance, you would have to play like 10 million games to have a reasonable samplesize. just imagine you play 100k games and in all the high payouts you run bad (which is easily possible since they don't come very often) then you are already losing money, even if you have a high ROI in all the other ones.
interesting article (even though not all numbers might be correct):

http://tiltbook.com/masuronike/blog/...th---spin--go/
(scroll down to see the full text.)

I have played about 50 myself, and yes, they are incredibly soft, esp. the ones without a multiplier (idk, people seem to give up once there is no multiplier...) but as the article sys, I don't think you should really be playing them regularly

Nice results! But I guess there is a small error in your reports...

The HH's of the Spin & Go say you pay rake per game (7%), but you actually don't pay that directly from your buyin. As it says on their site (and aswell on FullTilt regarding the Jackpot SnG's), the prize distribution is so that the rake is actually based on the average multiplier you would expect over an infinite amount of samples.

So if you multiply the 'multiplier' times the chance on that multiplier and divide it by the total chance, you see that the average multiplier you get at the Spin & Go's is $2,773 (on the 1$ buyin ones). If this would be a normal SNG without rake, you would expect this to be $3 since 3 players each pay a dollar to play.

The rake is thus payed by 'the reduced prizepool over a infinite sample size' and not as a 'direct amount per game' (although the HH's say this is the case).

Regarding this to your reports, you can actually change the rake to be zero. This means you actually earned $30.80 more than your reports say you have

I found in my reports that there was a difference in the amount I earned in HEM and what I had in my BR and this difference was the cause of what I describe above. I checked it with a Fulltilt employee and he confirmed it, although this was for the Jackpot SnG's but they work in the same way.

Very nice thread and I will be following your progress! GL!

Sorry to inform you but this information you have provided is incorrect, I'll explain below.

All of the following information is for this chart on http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/spin...and=PokerStars


As you can see 7c is attributed to rake.

$1 Spin & Go Probability
$1,000* 5 of 100,000
$200* 10 of 100,000
$100* 15 of 100,000
$25 80 of 100,000
$10 1,000 of 100,000
$6 8,000 of 100,000
$4 13,510 of 100,000
$2 77,380 of 100,000

93c per game x 100k games = $93k
$93k x 3 players per game = $279k

5k + 2k + 1.5K + 2K + 10k + 48k + 54040 + 154760 (1k* + 400* + 300*) = $279k

*part of the 10% of the first-place prize.

So I've still payed $30.80 in rake and it has no effect on Net won.

Ok, sorry to have misinformed you. Than this does not work the same way as on the Jackpot SnG's at Fulltilt.

how many turnies per hour ?

Good luck man! Inspired me to start my own thread. So much hate for Spin&Go's over at Tiltbook :P

about 30 - 35

4/10/2014:1 step back 1 step forward





Totals:




Kinda disappointed with volume today, but i'll make it up tomorrow.

It's not hate, it is a mathematically justified explanation why the Spin&gos are just a casino game like Blackjack. gl anyway

that ROI is ridiculous

It's math that the author predetermined your win rate to be 36.6%, which if you have an edge in these games is a dramatic understatement. He also mentions that this mystery player is running at EV, so I will as well as I pick my own math.

I expect any good player to have at least a 45% win rate at lower stakes (up to $7), and still 40% at higher stakes. I will for the original author's ask though not be as generous and say that the best player at these microstake turbos only averages a 40% ITM/win rate (which is ridiculously low when running at EV because you will almost always get it in ahead if you're any good). I get this because over a very modest 104 tournaments I have played, I got it in behind 11 times for my tournament life (win or lose). ELEVEN/ONEOHFOUR. If we extrapolate to 10K tournaments I would have a win rate of 89.42%. Don't get me wrong, I know that I wouldn't, even at EV. But if you triple that and say that I got really good hands my 104 tournaments and I won a lot of coolers or whatever, then I would still win 68.27% of the time. I'm not a great player by any means, so I think 40% is incredibly modest for the crushers of this.

at 40%, over a 10K tourney sample running AT EV, you would win $6064 in 2x tourneys, $2392 in 4x tourneys, $1920 in 6x tourneys, $400 in 10x tourneys, $80 in 25x tourneys, $60 in 100x tourneys, $80 in 200x tourneys, and $200 in 1000x tourneys.

At 40% ITM, at EV, you would win $11196, which is your buyins +7% rake as well as $496 profits, an ROI of 10.46% after rake, which is extremely achievable.

Good players WILL do significantly better than 40% ITM though, especially if they run at expected value. Best of luck Widowpro. I will no longer derail your thread responding to the people who call it the same as blackjack or slots. It's pretty simple that they are mistaken, and I wish you all of the success.

I won 14 out of 20 !

Is there something magical about these games that will allow them to be beaten for almost 30% ROI when no other STT is beatable for anything remotely close to that?

TIL there might be unicorns. Awaiting confirmation.

Getting it in with the best hand 93/104 times doesnt mean you win 93/104 times or 89%. Also simply getting it in with the best hand doesn't account for all the chips you lost waiting to get it in with a better hand than ur opponent. If you wait to have the best hand that often you usually have less chips than the other guy right?

No, I'm significantly more aggressive than most. I don't wait for the best hand, I raise a lot of hands, and seldom get blinded down.

Also, as to Max Cut, yes, there is something significant about it. It's that people view it as a gamble because of the lottery factor, so you get all of the gambler in there who will shove ATC. I imagine that in the long run this won't be a sustainable win-rate, but it definitely is a real thing right now.

These games are easier than anything else in poker in my opinion, but it's just that, my opinion. Best of luck OP, looking forward to more graphs!