Gooner, which 70fpp sats do you play? I can't seem to find any with a buy in of 70? You seem to do ok in these so was thinking about taking a shot.

Welcome back to 2nl.....you'll love it down here with the bottom feeders.

Give PLO a go Gooner. Once you have the basics (i.e. you rarely win without the nuts) and have an idea of starting hands, there is plenty of money to be made. Much more action which keeps me more interested. I defo think boredom leads to bad decisions, bad decisions leads to losses, chasing losses leads to tilt and so on.

The 70fpp satties are under the sit n go tab. they're 6max single table hyper turbos. they don't always seem to be listed though - i've only spotted them around 6pm ish (UK time) over the last few days. If it's the right one, it should give u a $3.30 tournament entry for coming in the top two in the satellite. make sure you unregister from the tournament tho - otherwise you won't get the $3.30.

As for PLO ... i've never played a hand of it. i've thought about it a few times, but i think that anything that swingy would utterly destroy me. it's bad beats that put me on tilt, so playing a game where i get outdrawn very regularly would ravage what little tilt-control i have left.

Geez mate - I know exactly your frustrations because we are set up so similarly (although I don't gamble at all aside from playing poker, which isn't gambling right ).

You need to get your **** together though. You can play. Your hand analysis are well thought out. You understand the game and the math and theory. TILT is holding you back. You KNOW tilt is holding you back. You're a smart bloke - stop it.

Not that I'm on top of it - I dropped $220 in about an hour last week at 50NL - but I'm getting there. I think my biggest tilt factor to overcome now is 'loss chase tilt'. Stop playing when I'm not playing well, or if I have lost some big pots don't move up to get them back and risk losing bigger pots. I'm getting much closer to being able to keep playing well most times/more often when I lose to the terrible suckout etc though. If I can, anyone can. You can.

That doesn't mean I'm not having episodes, but I am having them less often. Disabling chat was a god send for me too. That's the key for you - minimise the damage when you go on tilt and start recognising IN ADVANCE that it has started. Recognise it and don't let it control you - or stop if you feel it will. When you log on the next day and your BR is still in tact you'll be glad you did. You seem to be exploding every other day at the moment. It's happening way too often. You can't keep grinding back. It's too tiring and you feel like the wheels are spinning in mud. I know - I've been there and I'm still never very far from there. You are playing good poker a lot of the time. It's too hard to have to claw your way back every other day though.

I look back over my past 9 days of play and I'm down $62 overall. I have booked 8 WINNING days out of that 9. The losing day was worth $220. I'm rapt with myself that I kept playing well after that disasterous day and have nearly eradicated the damage, but I shouldn't have had to. My own 'move up/loss chase' tilt on that day wasted weeks of good work leading to that day and wastes my time since just clawing back. I played well that day too and got mighty unlucky (which I handled pretty well) but I was still tilting in a different way. It wasn't my day and I made a massive -EV move moving up under rolled and it cost me.

Sorry mate, this sounds all very preachy when I read it back. It isn't meant to be. It is directed as much to me as you.

The thing is, we both know we can play. We are never going to be the best going around and we might not ever make it from the micros, but I'll be stuffed if either of us aren't at least good enough to at least survive at 50NL, let alone make some profit there. BUT, we gotta get there first and it's time we both got hold of this monster and kicked his arse to the gutter.

I'm getting there - you can too. STOP TILTING.

This is not in the least bit preachy mate. What it is, is spot on as usual. There have been a number of times lately when I’ve been thinking about this issue, and I’ve taken confidence from the fact that you have been struggling with the same problem and are making great strides in controlling it. I’m reminding myself that you were tilting away at 5nl not long ago and now you’re playing well at 25nl.

Is there anything you feel that you are doing differently whilst playing? Anything you’re saying to yourself before/during a session to keep a level headed approach? Or is it simply a case of exercising some self-discipline? For me it’s a red-mist thing, like those footballers (soccer players to all you non Brits) who absolutely lose it and headbutt someone and get sent off following some particular trigger, when 30 seconds before they’d been calm and playing well. When it happens, I know it’s happening, and almost always there is a voice in my head saying, ‘Stop f***ing tilting, you’re an idiot.’ Trouble is, all self-control has gone by that point and the voice gets ignored. What have you done to minimise episodes like that happening?

You’re right that the grinding it back thing is just too difficult. Thing is, whenever you’re trying to grind it back you’re painfully aware for every moment of every session that if only you hadn’t gone on tilt in the first place, none of the grinding back would be necessary, and that makes it even harder to keep on an even keel, and makes tilt more likely.

So, one question that I’d appreciate your advice on. Do I redeposit say $100 or so and jump back into 10nl to try to short circuit some of this long and painful rebuild (and obviously risk blowing the $100 if I immediately go on tilt again)? Or do I take my medicine and force myself to go the slow route in the hope that I can find some self control this time by building back up more gradually (which carries its own risk of tilting through the frustration of being at 2nl/5nl)?

I can assure you they aren't great strides. Baby steps. The big monster is never far away but even when I'm steaming now I think I know it and I try to remember how much it is going to cost if I let it get to me.


I have tried thinking of something in particular but there isn't really anything. In all honesty it is just what you said -> exercising self discipline. I don't have stickers on the PC or sit down and go through a pre-playing checklist of positive thoughts. Why? Because I already know that I need to stay calm and play each hand to the best of my ability. That doesn't mean I do play each hand that way, but it's the goal.

I try to remember days like the other day and what the BR would be like if I didn't have that day and that's my main motivation for not doing it again.

Disbaling chat is working great guns for me although I don't think that's an issue for you. It was an easy out for me - a quick fix where I could let off steam and feel better that the fish now knows he's an idiot. I feel great because I have let everyone know I didn't lose the hand because of my own play - this donk just got lucky. How dumb is that? Firstly, a lot of the time my play was bad - at least paying off the river when you know you're beat. Just fold and get him next time. I did it last night - AK on AxxxK board and he shoves the river when the flush comes in. He obviously chased it all the way. He never had the price. So what? He got there - why the hell pay him off and reward him for his bad play? But I did. Then I wanted to vent, but couldn't. And it was great. That brief moment of pause slowed me down and I knew straight away (1) I should have folded, and (2) the fact that I couldn't rant was a blessing. It is likely to send him packing from the table because he can't be stuffed being abused and set me up as a target for all the other players who can see I'm steaming. So I continue playing, the other players see me just move on and take the loss in my stride and the fish sticks around. I always hated I was a chat box ranter. I always knew it was dumb. I still feel like doing it too but not being able to is fantastic.

Personally I couldn't play 2NL ever. It just does my head in. The money has to mean something and I guess in this regard it is just another form of tilt to me. Just too easy for me to jam all the time when I feel like I'm getting played back at. "It's only $2 and I've already got 30c or 40c in the pot".

I actually think as I move through the levels that I find it easier to stay calm and remind myself to play smart. Remember how much it costs to spew off stacks in rage. Losing 1 stack to a fish is one thing - don't compound the issue by then spewing off 2 more in 5 minutes because I'm raging. This I think is where I'm getting better. Remind myself of the damage I can do to myself as a result of frustration. I can't control what has just happened but I can control what is going to happen next. Starting to recognise this is doing wonders. I've had quite a few sessions recently where I've dropped an early BI only to be 1-2BI up by the end of the session. I just continued to play well. In the past I would have ended 2-3 BI down.

So in answer to you question I can only answer with the approach I would take - knowing that we are pretty similar in mindset though.

Forget 2NL. I would deposit $100 or whatever it takes to get you back to about $150. That's 30 BI @ 5NL. Play 5NL - for now. Not for long, but long enough that you are happy you are playing solid, calm poker. A week or two and no more. Hopefully build to about $200-$250. Cash in your T$ or some stellar rewards, it doesn't all have to be profit. When you're comfortable with your play and you have 20-25 BI for 10NL, move up. DO NOT withdraw your $100 as soon as you get $100 up. It's only $100 and it will just keep you at 5NL longer if you withdraw it.

I'm all for reasonably aggressive BR management in terms of moving up (through to 25NL). I'm happy to move to 16NL, and then 25NL, with only 20 BI. My BR dropped to $300 after my bad day last week. I played 16NL for a few days just to regain some composure and by the time I had the BR back to $350-$375 I was taking shots at 25NL again. The key is to know your mindset is right. I'm back close to $500 now but I plan on being at 25NL for a while now. I want to double what I have before I even consider 50NL again, and then I might still wait a bit longer. However, there is no need to play with 40-50 BI between 5NL and 25NL, but have at least 15-20. Just have enough room for a bad day not to be crippling and be prepared to steady the ship at a lower level if need be.

Be prepared to take some time. Think about the time it takes to come back if you spew. Enjoying playing. Don't withdraw too soon.

Hope it helps mate. Better players than me would probably advise differently. I'm not giving advice so much as sharing my own thought process about where I am currently and how I am going about it.

The key is I know tilt is a massive liability and slowly but surely I am dealing with it. You know it hurts you so why do it? It really is just discipline and when you mention you know you are doing it and are telling yourself to stop being a f-wit but do it anyway, then who's to blame?

You know full well that the open shove every hand thing from the other day is ridiculous. You know it now but you also knew it when you were doing it. Did it make you feel better and what was the result? What did you expect the result to be even as you were doing it? Sure, you may have luckboxed on some other poor sap but the most likely result is in the end you're just donating stacks. Stacks that you have to win all over again.

One thing I do now is after every week I filter my results in PT3 so only the current week's results show up. That way, I don't look back at last week or last month and see how well I'm going. I focus on here and now. Likewise, if i dropped 6 BIs last week, I'm not constantly seeing that and thinking I need to win them back. All I'm doing is playing poker right NOW, as best I can.

Good luck mate.

I hope I can be of any assistance on this, but what did miracles for me, was knowing I'm not going to give up poker because I'm hooked on it, that going hand in hand with the fact that I would have to rebuild all the way from scratch again has kept me from spewing and tilting majorly. I got more tired of re-deposit and rebuilding all the way from 5nl back to 10 or 25 than the endless suckouts. I mean, it will continue happening, KK will crack your AA, AQs will crack your KK, and it doesnt matter if it's for 10 dollars, or 2000. But the biggest loss in my eyes is not my 100BB stack, it's the remainder of my roll when I piss it all away in a tilt.

And maybe the best tip I can give you. Learn to walk away, there is absolutely no shame in taking a day off when you're running like Usian Bolt on ice. Take an hour off, go watch a film with the misses, or make one(if thats what u're in too:P).

I'm currently in my worst month myself, about breakeven after 70k hands total this month. Nothing holds, nothing hits. And all I do every day I play is rostucko, but I know that if I tilt it all away, it's going to be a much longer journey than just 70k hands break even, which is like 10 days of play for me, even less if I'm in my insomnia periods.

Very good points. This certainly encapsulates well some of my own thought process.

I mean, it took me 50k hands and 62 hours of 5nl to win 345 dollarz. I think I could lose it all in 62 minutes, maybe less. Now lets be honest, that just isn't worth it is it?

@ Hawk
@ Hitcham

Thank you both for taking the time to post your advice – you are both talking an awful lot of sense, and I’m going to try very hard to actually act on what you say. It’s one thing knowing when I hear good advice, it’s another taking that advice on board and following it when it counts – i.e. when I can feel tilt coming on. But again, it helps enormously to hear how both of you are tackling the same issue.

This morning I did much better. I sat down at 4 5nl tables, and within literally a couple of minutes I got it in with 2pair and about 85% equity, only for the fish to river me. A few minutes after that, another fish chased his gutshot all the way to the river and cracked my tptk – it’s like the poker gods do these things just for their own amusement and to watch you suffer. But rather than go insane, I told myself to keep trying to make the right decisions, and I didn’t tilt. (I continued to run like cr*p but that’s a different issue!).

You both emphasised how I need to remember the damage I do to my roll every time I tilt, and how much harder it is to rebuild each time. I agree, as I’ve decimated my roll on probably two dozen occasions, and I would love not to have to go through the rebuild again. It’s just so f***ing painful playing for $5 pots when the day before you were playing for $100 pots.

Walking away when it’s not going well, though, is something I’ve never been able to do to this point. I ‘love’ playing too much (even when I’m in the middle of one of those runs when I want to put my head through the nearest wall and never see a playing card again) and I can’t not play when I have the opportunity to play. I think what I may do in this respect though is join a training site, download a few videos, and try to watch one of those instead, even if only for a few minutes while I calm down – that way I’ll still be engaged in something poker related, but I won’t be risking my roll. I’ll see if that works.

So thanks again guys, I’ll keep this updated with what will hopefully be some progress.

@ Hawk – I haven’t seen you update your thread for a few days. Stick a few hands up – I’ll be interested to see how you’re doing.

@ Hitcham – do u have a PG&C thread? If not, feel free to post any hands or ideas for discussion in this thread. What site/stake are you playing at the moment?

Oh, and to keep up my ongoing satties record:

70fpp satties: 10/22 cashed.

Yeah I know what you mean. I'm probably still playing rather than walking away but I am making that determined effort to control my emotions. Sometimes I'll just take a minute or two and stop all tables and look at the hand replay. If I did something wrong then that disappoints me more than a donk sucking out but either way it helps me refocus when I sit back again. If it was a case of a fish just getting lucky then I mark my fish colour on him and take a note if necessary (won't bother if I think he is unlikely to be seen again after tonight). Just taking those few minutes before playing again helps immensely though if I am on the verge of losing it.

Yeah, you're right. My monthly internet usage got absorbed by my son in about 1 week this month as he has discovered online gaming. Once that happens I can still access the internet but the usage gets slowed majorly. Doesn't affect playing poker but it does affect downloading/uploading speeds on sites like this and posting pictures and graphs takes forever. That's why I didn't post my weekly update last week (not because I had that shocking day ). Obviously need to ramp up my contract for a greater allowance but my contract runs from the 20th each month so I am about to get back to civilised internet speeds again - and my son is getting a warning.

Just thought I'd throw my support in the ring too.

Keep it up, I've definitely been guilty of tilting a BI or two which I could really use. Making bad calls and then opening my raising and 3betting range to the point where it's just beyond unprofitable.

Just sit out for 10mins, splash some water on your face, and tell yourself out loud "I can beat the game, I choose to play my best"

"I'm going to take every decision to play absolutely perfect poker, and take 2 sec extra with my decision".

If you are tilting, announce to yourself out loud EXACTLY why you are 3betting. It will sound exceptionally hollow out loud when you say (I'm 3betting OOP with 95o because ... ummm... ****



Just my 2 cents.

@blackmagic - thanks for your post mate,and welcome to the thread. What u say about talking aloud to yourself is true. In fact (assuming you're on your own!) it can be very useful in general. Having to justify your decisions out loud really makes u realise when your thought is flawed

Just want to say hi. I think I am in the same boat as you in that I feel like tilt and not being disciplined is the only thing holding me back. the thing that helps me is not playing too much... seems like after awhile I just lose the ability to fold and get really frustrated (5nl is players are really frustrating). I was hoping to go 15 days without any major spewing but sure enough day 1 was a disaster. Just have to stick with it. Good luck, I know how hard it is.

No problem at all mate, I've got no active PG&C thread but ill make sure to post some hands or ideas when ever I have something interesting.

On the 18th of June I started playing 5nl after being a slight winning player, like 2bb/100 tops. A friend of mine offered me coaching but at full-ring, used to play 6 max, so in Juny I started 16 tabling 5nl and crushed the stake for 12bb/100 over 70k hands(I know, small sample but still). And start of July I moved up to 10nl once my BR hit 500, and well let's just say that July is the worst month in poker so far.

I started with a horrible redline downswing, nothing worked, every cbet got raised, every double barrel got called only to have to give up on horrible river cards. I finely get out of that redline downswing and now all I do is get set over set, sets getting cracked, AA vs KK all in only for him to river a K, etc etc etc, so after 60k hands at 10nl, i'm up about 5 buyins rofl, worst ****ing month ever. All in all a very frustrating month thus far and I surely can relate to how you feel. Here's my 10nl graph for July so far, doesnt look pretty haha!.

Graph: http://imageshack.us/f/809/lolololns.png/

But, I must say that my biggest achievement this far is staying calm, when I found myself laughing that I lost KK on a Kh 7d 9s to A2hh for 250BB(all in on the flop) I knew I got passed the whole ''omfg so unfair'' attitude. We play that hand 100 times, I probably win it 97 times, cant ask for more can I? I get more upset nowadays if I make a horrible call, or a spewy bluff than losing AA vs QKo.

Well that was a wall of text haha, anyways thanks for letting me crash the party and goodluck once again with the thread. Link some hands if you need any thoughts on it, I can also direct some other respected players here to help you with them.