I don't play live, but from what I've heard most players are lolbad. The first sign to recognise these would be excessive limping. At the point you flat the 3b the limper is especially likely to call since he feels he's getting odds.

I can think of only two situations where I am not 3 betting KK pre flop. It is the second best starting hand in the game.

A guy that I used to see in at the local casinos would ship it pre with AA, regardless of prior action or his stack size. It could limp or fold to him and he is sitting on 300 at 1/2, and he would ship it. So I am not 3betting here hoping for another caller. Second, being OOP and looking to trap a loose player and only if my call closes the action, but even then I would prefer to 3 bet, especially at llsnl. That is really too fancy for me and I prefer to a raise. But I digress...

Second best starting hand in the game. You want to play big hands, such as #2 KK, for BIG POTS. 3bet = bigger pot.

You put her on a range then failed to act in a +EV manner based on that range. Why? If your read on this gal was AA, then you should have folded. If it was QQ/KK/AA, well you are ahead of 1/3 of her range, tie 1/3, and are behind a 1/3. You have 50% equity.

You are scared of playing this hand post flop. Scared of the Ace. We all are, but some aren't scared to lose money with the second best starting hand. If you fear playing this post flop, especially OOP, you could have just shipped it. While not optimal, if called the dead money in the pot makes it +EV given the range you put her on, assuming she never folds QQ to your shove.

In case I forgot to mention, KK is the second best starting hand in the game.

TL;DR - Scared money don't make money.

Are you saying you don't see any value in flatting kings here? Felt I was a little too deep to get it in pre here, and live you should be able to find more guaranteed spots. Also, im not gonna sugarcoat, 500 bucks is a large percentage of my total liferoll still. But scared money want necessarily the reason I flatted

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100 BBs getting KK in pre is pretty routine.

$45 pre seems huge, like a typical scared JJ raise

this might sound cruel but I do not think you can possibly play flops well enough to make up for this mistake pre. You should have gone to 115 or more.

Okay, then only lady Villain2 calls. Flop still comes ATT. What do now

Wow great read!!! Sad it didn't work out as u hoped... Could be worse tho!
I've been homeless and it is no joke!
Glad u r on an upswing at least!
As for that KK hand id say u should of defo raised preflop
Anyway wish you all the best in the future

Add Super System to the list and good luck.

There is no value in flatting KK here. What are you trying to accomplish? You want to play this hand against one other villain, not multiple villains.

"More guaranteed spots."??? Do I really need to say that, pre-flop, there is only one more guaranteed spot. If you are unwilling to ship it, pre or post flop, unless you have the nuts, which is the only guaranteed spot, you are not ready to play real poker.

Poker is a great game but it can be brutal when you lose. I am just a rec-fish but I used to be scared money until I brutally murdered that part of myself. If you want to play the best poker within your ability, it is my opinion that you must have no regard for the monetary value of the clay chips in front of you. They are chips, nothing else, and your job is to accumulate more of them.

Scared money was the exact reason why you flatted. Don't deny that especially when you said that 500 bucks is a large portion of your life roll. If making the correct +EV play puts a large part of your life roll at risk, then you are playing too high of stakes.

You should consider foregoing live and play online for much smaller stakes. If this was a .10/.25 game online, would you have it played the same way? If the answer is "no," you are playing scared and need to drop stakes. If it is "yes," you need to substantially reduce the volume of play and spend more time studying.


If I am in your shoes and I give her a range of QQ/KK/AA, then I make a 1/2 to 2/3 pot size bet and rep the Ace. Her 3 bet calling range pre-flop is going to be wider than AA. When you bet the flop, she may fold her QQ and KK. If she calls, I evaluate the turn. If she raises, I fold.

If you 3bet pre and get it heads up, and then check any flop with an Ace, I am betting because you just showed me that you are scared of the Ace.

When you see a flop that is neutrally scary, such as A,T,T or any flop with an Ace, remember that your opponents are equally likely to be scared of these types of flops unless they hit. Chances are they didn't, so bet. This is for when you get it heads up. If the flop comes A,T,T and there are 3+ callers pre, I am not firing a continuation bet 100% of the time.

Is this thread real life?

I'm not scared money, poker is my life and I truly respect the game. I've talked to some respectable players IRL that play live and believe that there is value in taking the deceptive approach. I mean, would you be able to range me on pocket kings after I just flat in the small blind? On a safer looking flop, I could check, and the pretty lady would fire a near pot sized bet, then I could get more money in that way. If i 3B pre, I mostly get folds, or if I did get a call, I'm playing an overinflated flop where my options dwindle. If you play for pennies online, then good on you. If you want to play real stakes, PM me and you and I can set up a heads up table at the Commerce.

No I wouldn't...you are right.

You need to work on your BRM or you'll be writing that your busto again...soon.

The good thing about this thread is that when OP goes busto, he will write about it. I hate when other threads get abandoned because the OP went broke.

I'm not gonna go broke again. Don't jinx it

So after a couple weeks of run good at the 2/3 and 3/5 games, I'm up $2.6K. It would be 3.2K, but I had the most SHlTbad session last night, where I lost 3 buy ins, one where I was short stacking and 3bet my 9d9c into JJ which insta-called. Second buy in, I have my full buy for 200$ in front of me. There's a viet guy that's been spazzy all night (He'd been spazzy all fuggin night, 2betting a limped pot to $60, 3 betting pre with T2suited flopping bottom pair and pushing hard)
He now has a $160 stack, and is limped to him in MP and shoves all in saying that he has to go home, and he didn't look. It comes to me, and I have pocket tens! I reluctantly call, and he Tables his AA.... which hold up. He says he swears he didn't look, proceeds to collect his chips, and half an orbit later he cashes out, saying he has to meet some friends. What am I to think of this? what would you do?

Don't do the I got xx amount of money but I would be xx+30% ****.

That's how variance works. If I get up with the "would be" I might win every last 52 sunday Millies (without regging mind ya!)

it actually kinda was bro. the best play for this hand is to find it at lower stakes so you can play it correctly preflop.

I discussed this hand and a similar hand with HeliumXD, conclusion was that there is value in flatting, as we are misdefining our range. If i raise pre, I get many folds except from AA/KK, but if I got a better flop with no Ace, I am getting so many more value monies. I am not scared to go busto, bc I don't have very much to lose. I already lost my job, home, and left my friends and family to become a poker pro. I live in my car so nobody can evict me. I'm a self made man, and the lowest stakes I will play is 1/2, but my preferred is 3/5 because I hate how the 1/2 plays out like the micros online and also the rake is so high.

Keep telling yourself that. If you played it perfectly, then why did you post it here? We all misplay hands.

As to your challenge to play me heads up at Commerce, there is a very strong likelihood that I will be in SoCal from 9/11 through that weekend for business. It is a firm date right now but the matter could get resolved or rescheduled. If I were an odds maker, I would say there is a 55% chance I will be there in September.

Here are my terms:

-heads up and your entire roll is on the line, including your car. I will cover.

-blinds are 5/T, unless Commerce agrees to a reasonable time charge instead of rake in which case I will play 3/5. I hear the rake there is crazy and they do not abide by the "no flop, no drop." As such, higher stakes are necessary.

-min/max buy in of 150bb with unlimited reloads until either you are busto or you take all my chips.

These are much higher stakes than I normally play. If you want to challenge me because I gave you advice and commented about you being scared money, then these are my terms.

This all assumes that you are not busto before then.

Odds on OP going busto before 9/11?

Oh snap! HU for rollz!!!!!

Pretty unfair proposition... sounds like someone just have to let the crowd knows he has bigger balls.

Def wanna keep those axs hands in when you have KK.

If you had a $200 stack and some spewy woman bets $45 on the BTN, I understand your thinking about a flat call (even oop), but I like a 3B way more. I don't think you are right in that she only calls AA, KK. I don't know how much you've played online, but you may be playing those hand way different when you would have played 500k hands online.

Great thread btw. GL!!

hahahah GL with the grind man sounds like your having a ruff time.

OP busto?