Whattup 2+2,

Story:

This is going to be my second PG&C thread, my last one being http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...llsnl-1381809/

It was a very swingy run and I ended up +992 over 689 hours, basically breaking even in the Hawaii underground games. That was my first taste of making a living off of poker and I can say that I have learned a lot in a short time.

I had a 16 hour flight from Hawaii to LV thanks to a delay, and I officially turn 21 in a few hours! I will try to use some of my experiences to help me have a better run this time around.

One of the things that many aspiring players underestimate when attempting to "go pro" is the increased difficulty of every aspect of the game. Playing (responsibly) as a recreational player is strolling downhill with roller blades, playing "seriously" is jogging on a track, and playing for a living is running uphill with a weighted vest in dry desert heat. I learned this the hard way.

I was "crushing" the game when I was living under my parent's roof in high school, playing in .25/.50 home games where people didn't have a clue. After a while, I moved up to the underground 1/3 and 2/5 games, did well and moved out. At this time, I had a decent job working at Sprint to make BR management and risk of ruin almost irrelevant. After a year of working and playing, I began to really hate going into work, despite doing well as a salesman and having a good crew to work with. I decided to drop my job and go for it full time (the second half of my last thread). This is when I experienced the brutalities of professional poker: a downswing with no cushion of job, the loss of confidence in your own game, unconfirmable questions of bad luck versus bad play, lower tilt thresholds, and a bunch of other things. As a now older, experienced man; let me tell you now that it ain't all sunshine and flowers in this game

Despite all the pain, I have also seen the greatness through my own eyes, as well as through my friends and others with PG&Cs in LLSNL (we know who they are). I am going to give myself this opportunity to "go for it" and try to figure this game of poker and game of life out.

What I will be working with:

Poker BR=$6992 (same roll from last thread)
Life Roll=$2200

Not the best starter kit but I think if I do it like this I can have decent shot at doing well. I probably have about 2-3 months of life expense covered until my life roll goes busto if I don't add to it. I am not too sure how I will split my earnings between the two yet, but I'd be open to any ideas from people with more experience with it. Another thing I realized is that there are TONS of casinos, I guess I will have to just randomly go around and see what works for me. Bravo app is download so I'll how useful it is.

My starting objectives:

• For the rest of April or about 100 hours, play 1/3 to get acclaimed to Vegas poker and build up for a 2/5 shot when the games are supposed to be better. I could go for 2/5 out of the gate but I'd rather take care of my BR for now, I won't shy away from any good games as long as I am above 6k

• Figure out a good place to live, probably somewhere on the strip so I can be in somewhat of a walking/bussing distance from most casinos since I don't have a car right now. Considering using my life roll to buy a hooptie and live out of my car Mike Wolf style

Going to go out with some friends tonight to eat good and get wasted, after that my journey begins!

Be ready for some cringe worthy Vegas tourist pics, the highs and lows of a LLSNL grinder, and hopefully just overall cool stuff. Open to questions, advice, criticism, worship, whatever! Thanks for reading!

GL, will be following!

Subbed. GL!

gl Varx, stay classy

GLGL, sounds like a start of an great thread. Considering going pro myself.

Are you planning on living in Vegas? I'm 21 as well and will basically be doing the same thing, but I'll be a regular in the Aria $125 daily on my journey to becoming a tournament pro. Looking to travel WSOP Circuit events, etc. Possibly looking for a roommate my age and with the same interests, etc.

Good luck with your goals!

Thanks guys!

Thanks, I hope to have a great journey. Just make sure you prepare properly and give it your all if you do. If you didn't already, check out this special post by DGIharris http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...g-pro-1426688/

Thank you and yes, I plan on living in Vegas for at least 6 months. From the information that I have gathered, LV isn't the best place for pros but LA or Florida is considered more optimal by many decent sources. Reason I like LV is because the low cost of living and lots of options at low stakes (1/2-1/3, capped 2/5's). I think it is a good place to start, and its going to be series time soon!

That is pretty interesting, I didn't know people make a living at the low stake live tournaments. Winning a tournament is so appealing for the bink factor, but I heard the variance is sickening. I'm crashing on a friends couch atm so I am thinking I will just try to get a cheap studio but I am not sure yet, if I decide to look for roommates I'll shoot you a PM!



Going to play my first session tonight, looks like I'll try out the Venetian or Wynn. Caesar's Palace looks pretty decent for 1/3 too. Oh well, I'm just excited to finally put some hours in!

Was they rake incredibly high in your underground games? That has almost always been my experience, really dampens the wr. Hopefully you see a nice boost simply by saving on rake. GL!

Good luck, OP.

I am sure that you will have good success as long as you keep your focus and maintain a strong work ethic on the felt (grinding) and off the felt (fixing leaks and otherwise improving your poker game).

First session in a casino was pretty cool, walked around for a bit and made a players card at the Wynn. $500 cap 1/3 so I went pretty aggressive with the BR out the gate. Table was soft, there was only one other "grinder" type at my table. The stacks for the most part ranged around 200-300, not bad. I would like some feedback on HAND 5 if you guys have a chance to read throughout the HH's.

Sat down with five B. Franklins in front of me and was wondering when I would get chips after 10 minutes lol. The chip runner came to the table but I didn't hand over the cash so no chips. I knew I should've just bought chips at the cage. After I finally got chips the whole table started joking around about my cluelessness haha. Instant fish status.

First hand I decide to raise to 15 over 2 limpers with 54 from the BTN, get called by one guy that was drinking. Flop comes out J66. He bets 25, I raise to 70, he goes AI for 250 more. Dammit, spew on my first hand.

HAND 1
HERO $530 AJ
V (Grinder reg, doesn't seem aggro)

3 limps, HERO raises to 15, 3 calls

FLOP(45): J73
checks to me, HERO bets 40, V raises to 110, HERO folds

Both of these hands happened within the first 3 orbits so I imagine my image is terrible. I started to worry I was over-anxious so I take a few deep breaths and decide to just tighten up for a bit and work on some value bets. I do end up bluff raising a AJ9 flop with K5 after a cbet from weak-tight guy and he folds.

HAND 2
HERO SB $560
V $600 BB (Grinder reg)
Pretty much left each other alone since the first hand where I got c/r. I did 3 bet him with AQo IP and he folded. He moved to my direct left after some guy busted out.

V1 "chop?"
Me "Nah lets play"

HERO looks down at TT

HERO raises to 15, V raises to 40, HERO calls

FLOP (80): 873
HERO checks, V bets 55, HERO calls

TURN (190): A
HERO checks, V bets 80, HERO calls

RIVER (350) A
HERO checks, V bets 110, HERO calls

V opens 64

Finally win a decent pot and I end up with around $800 which is even since I chipped up for $100 3 times.

HAND 3
HERO $800 AA
V $200 (Loose passive, european guy)

HERO raises to 15 over 3 limps, all 3 call

FLOP (60): A65
HERO bets $25, V calls, all fold

TURN (110): 6
HERO bets 55, V raises to 140, HERO goes AI, V snaps

I fast roll my hand on the turn (people in Vegas don't open to the river I guess)

RIVER: T
V opens 66
Whole table ooo's and ahh's about BBJ (it doesn't qualify anyway is what the convo ended at)

HAND 4
HERO $550 QJ
V $100 (tilted young guy, bought in like 6 times and had to go to the ATM)

2 limps, HERO raises to 15, 3 calls

FLOP (40): Q53
V1 goes AI for 85, HERO calls

TURN: A

RIVER:4

I know this doesn't look good... V opens 83
I open my hand getting ready to scoop the pot...
"STRAIGHT"
I look again and its the 82, what a sicko...

HAND 5
HERO CO $500 KJ
V1 BTN $700 (annoying guy, jerk to the dealer, and talks about equity %'s to people, running good. He just hit a flush on someone for stacks before this hand. He talked to me about hands but I ignored him)
V2 SB $100 (mid aged lady, just having fun, limps every hand)

Folds to hero, HERO raises to 12, V1 calls, V2 calls

FLOP (36): JT4
HERO bets 35, V1 calls, V2 raises to 115, HERO calls, V1 calls

TURN (380): 8
HERO bets $200, V1 calls

RIVER (780): A
HERO checks, V1 checks

V2 opens QJ
V1 opens A3

I chip up $400 more (I was now a little over the $500 cap but no one seemed to mind)

HAND 6
HERO $640 97
V $500 (big guy, old school vegas type of gambler, casually drinking)

3 limp, HERO raises to 15, 3 calls

FLOP (60):KQ7
V bets 55, fold, fold, HERO raises to 150, V calls

TURN (360): 3
V goes AI for 350,
I wasn't happy because I wanted him to check and I jam but I convinced myself not very many hands play like that except flush draws so I could be ahead, HERO calls

RIVER: 6
V shakes his head and then opens 54
I been getting crushed for the past 3 hands now so I am pretty disgusted at this point.

So now I only have ~$350 left in front, the other $1150 I brought is spread around the table. I open one more hand, fold flop. I finally wake up with JJ, someone raises to 10, I make it 40, get called in 2 spots. FLOP comes T73, I bet 70, get raised to 150, guy tank folds, I tilt fold. I sit for a few more hands and the guy says he folded QQ and the other guy said he had 33. I just get a rack and cash out my last $214.

Wynn session -$1286, 5 hours

I go back to where I am staying and grab some cash then go to the the uncapped Golden Nugget 1/2 game. Game sounds wild with everyone wasted and yelling so I am hopeful but I was extremely card dead and the game wasn't that crazy action wise. It had hilarious table talk though. I tapped out after about 3 hours and cashed out +$46

Hopefully I can do better tonight because that was a rough first session.

Yeah the rake was sick, 5% uncapped. I am definitely excited to play where max rake is like <$10. If I got it in for 100bb at 2/5 at the underground games, I lose $50 to rake!

Thanks ATsai!

Why are we calling raise on flop in hand 5?

Hand 2, SB (Hero) vs. BB: 5x'ing pre is definitely unnecessary in this spot. 3x is fine and allows you to steal in the future at a better price. As played I like river call. Ace is a great card for us and really polarizes villain's range.

Also, I really like the way you format your HH's. Nice and organized

gl op! iirc you are a sicko at heart and will cause lots of problems for the unfortunate vegas regs.

I'll go through your hands real quick with my thoughts:

Hand 1: You can make it bigger preflop to get more value and thus make your flop/turn/river bets bigger. I played at Wynn a lot and 5x + 1 is what works best IMO. $15 over 3 limpers is just to small and you are missing out on a lot of value if you continue to size it like this. Good fold OTF.

Hand 2: I think you should be chopping since it'll be hard to beat the rake heads up at 1/3. This is especially true against grinder kids who are not going to be your biggest customers in these games.

Hand 3: Again bigger preflop. I also wouldn't worry about sizing it super small OTF. Most peopl are either calling or they aren't. Trying to induce raises at a loose/passive 1/3 game is also pointless because no one is aggressive enough to even consider a raise - much less actually do it.

Hand 4: Again bigger pre. LOL tough beat.

Hand 5: Fold to the flop raise.

Hand 6: I don't think you have much fold equity against a pot-sized donk bet so I'd just flat the flop and then fold the turn. Good read, I guess. Not sure if you soul read him or whatever, but in general, at a 1/3 game, this (pot-sized donk bet from a non-spewy player on a wet board + shove OTT) is going to be a line of strength. If you want to isolate with 97s, you should raise bigger preflop or else just overlimp.

Hope this helps...

If you're into playing late night, give Planet Hollywood a shot. There is usually very soft 1/2 going over there during graveyard hours. But only play there if everywhere else is dead because its 5+1 rake compared to 4 flat everywhere else.

Venetian late night is also very good. Wynn is my favorite place to play during the day. If you are leaving the Wynn/Venetian to go to Bellagio or Aria or Harrah's (harrah's also gets great late night 1/2 during week nights), stop by at Treasure Island real quick to see if there is a good game. That game can randomly get VERY VERY good during the graveyard hours and they also have an awesome $10/hr rakeback promotion.

Good luck, Varx. I grinded Vegas for a month so I'm by no means an expert, but I did learn a lot about the games out there and how to maximize your profit. Let me know if you have any questions that I can help you with.

Also where are you staying? Do you have a car?

Hand Five flatting the flop raise is bad. You should be crushed there, and it sounds like you let your dislike of the villain impact your decision making.

The hand where you flopped top set with AA you should be betting about 40 there, unless your standard C-bet is less than 1/2 pot, but I assume it isn't. If you're betting 35-45 with all your bluffs there, then you need to be betting the same with all your value hands.

Played a pretty frustrating session at the Venetian 1/2, table was so tight I had to make my money from stealing blinds rather than value betting

HAND 7
HERO BB $350 QQ
V MP $210 (Super tight guy, only other guy raising every time he enters pots)

V raises to 10, HERO calls

FLOP (20): T83
HERO checks, V bets 15, HERO calls

TURN (50): 6
HERO checks, V bets 25, HERO calls

RIVER (100): 3
HERO checks, V bets 45, HERO calls

V opens KK

Fold river brah, this guy is only JJ+ after the river bet. Just decided to table change after realizing I can't even 3 bet QQ's for value because they are that tight. Cool having 3 stacks of blue chips from stealing blinds though ha.

HAND 8
HERO SB $300 AT
V1 UTG $40
V2 CO $100

V1 bets 5, 3 calls, HERO raises to 20, V1 calls, fold, V2 calls

FLOP (60): A83
HERO bets 30, V1 folds, V2 calls

TURN (120): 5
HERO goes AI for 50, V2 calls

RIVER Q
V opens 99

That was the only exciting hand from 1/2, I decide to play 2/5 and get a table change chip. I again suck at casino procedures so I look clueless as I get sent to a newly made 2/5 table. +0 at 1/2, 3 hours

I fold for a round and this is my first hand I play at 2/5

HAND 9
HERO UTG $500 TT
V SB $500 (old asian man)

HERO raises to $15, SB calls

FLOP (35): 885
V checks, HERO bets 25, V raises to 50, HERO calls

TURN (135): 9
V bets 80, HERO calls

RIVER (295): 6
V bets 155, HERO folds

I really hated that hand. I was thinking checking flop? On the river I looked at V and his heart was jumping out of his throat, but I decided it was because of a monster not a bluff since there aren't very many hands he is taking a sick bluff line with. Chip up for $200 more. Get moved to another 2/5 table since I was at a "must move".

I try a double barrel bluff on a call station and get snapped off by a weak ace on the river, chip up another $200, get moved again. I win a few small pots at the new table and build up a few hundred bucks, then get barreled off a turn by a reg type. He also 3 bet me once I folded, I 3 bet him and he folded another hand.

HAND 10
I actually didn't record this hand because I went on a rush of hands/spots shortly after this and I am having trouble recalling the action. I thought I was IP this hand but that would have to mean he l/rr pre which I don't think he did.

HERO MP $750 99
V LP $1000 (reg type, seems pretty aggro, he cbet 100% which I thought was spews but small sample)

HERO raises to 20, 1 call, V raises to 60, HERO calls

FLOP (140): QT7
HERO checks, V bets 80, HERO raises to 250, V tries to talk to me, V folds

After this hand I wake up with KK and flop top set and get 2 streets, get AQ twice and 3 bet twice, then get 52 OTB, raise pre, flop A54 bet flop, check turn, hit a gutshot and over bet river and get paid all in row.

Ended up +$201 in 2 hours then went to get food. Then I went to Planet Hollywood and played some 1/2. The atmosphere was great with girls from the club walking around and club music filling the room. Won +65 in 2 hours. Game died so went to Caesar's and played 2 hands, one was 33's I raise, whiff and fold flop. Then I get:

HAND 11
HERO CO $500 77
V SB $700 (a young lady, late 20's or early 30's)

1 limp, HERO raises to 15, BTN calls, V raises to 55, HERO calls BTN calls

FLOP (165): 99T
V bets 65, HERO calls, BTN folds

TURN (295): 7
V checks, HERO checks

RIVER (295): 6
V bets 150, HERO raises to 385 AI, V snaps

V opens 99

I guess thats what I get for leaking pre and flop. She also gets a $100 bonus and says the "Gigs up boys! Cyas!". I was pretty tired and tilted so I left shortly after the drunk guy on the table got kicked off. -$500, 1 hour.

Posting from the Flamingo food court, about to play a freeroll event where certain amount of players win $200+$1500 tournament seat. They have it on every Monday and Friday until the end of April I think. Had to qualify by playing 6 hours before the tournament day so after I got stacked at Caesar's, I briefly went home then grinded 1/2 on no sleep haha. Went +335.

Yeah I agree the sizing was big, I'll keep that in mind for next time. I think part of it was that I was raising to that size pretty consistently over limpers, not a good reason. And TY, it does take time to go over and post HH's.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I am not sure that I agree with folding flop after a limp caller goes AI, I don't mean to be results oriented but against the short stack I expect to be good with TP2K for about 40bb's as V can be shoving pretty wide with any pair any high spade or pair draw combo. I didn't like the guy true, but that wasn't the reason for the decision, I expected to also be ahead and if he flats he pretty much has a A high or K high flush draw a high % of the time and I can jam non spade turns. (But I didn't in the game and went for a large bet which is what I thought was pretty bizarre).

If I were to fold, it would be because of the deeper villain right? Not because I expect to be behind the short stack?

Again thanks for the feedback, I may even want to do some further work on this one because it is potentially a big mistake spot if it was a pretty -EV call.

Hey duke, thanks for the advice about the different casinos, good stuff. The idea of not beating the drop in those BB vs SB spots is also huge. I mentioned earlier in the thread that I used to pay up to 10x-50x the $4 drop so I overlook that lol. Gotta get out of that mentality... I'll probably just chop from here on out.

And I am staying with some craigslist guy for $350/mo. I am about 1 mile from the Wynn and other casinos so I can walk. And no, no car out here yet. Don't laugh, but I am thinking about nitting it up by getting a bicycle and going to sessions nerd style and picking up a bus pass until I get out of 1/3 completely. You must be coming to Vegas for the series right?

Haha thanks for the rungood vibes Fogo!

Alright, 5 minutes till the tournament starts! Let me bink this so I can play a event this year!

You're pressing the call button too much

Also, remember table selection is #1 in Vegas. If you're at a frustratingly tight 1/2 game at Venetian, table change or casino change. There's no excuse for ever being stuck at a bad game when there's another casino right next door.

I'll be in Vegas May 29-June 9 so I'll see you then!

Don't feel too bad about your situation. I stayed at a cheap apartment ($670/month) 1.5 miles from the strip and walked there every day with my backpack. I play 5/5 on a $14-15k BR in LA now and still take the bus. Gotta pay your dues.

GL OP.

Also, imo, 1/2nl at Venetian isn't as juicy as 1/2nl on Fremont Street. Alot of semipros, wannabes, and nits seem to play the 1/2nl at the Venetian compared to your typical drunk tourist type. Not to say they aren't there as well. Just saying based on my limited experience, it seemed that you got a higher percentage of "tight" players at Venetian 1/2nl compared to everywhere else..

Anyways, from my limited 1/2nl Vegas experience, the best place for 1/2nl was Planet Hollywood and Golden Nugget.

I remember just grinding at those places and watching the most horrific spewtarded terribad play known to mankind. Have you ever seen Oceans 11? In the opening scene there is a scene where Brad Pitt is teaching some rich kids how to play poker and one of them turns over his hand and says, "I got all reds..."

Well, I actually saw that happen at Planet Hollywood. I guy bet and shoved river and thought he won because he had all red and the board was all red So yeah, Planet Hollywood became my favorite place for 1/2nl on the strip.

Golden Nugget downtown was another place I had great 1/2nl experiences with tourist stumbling in drunk at all hours, dumping $100 - $300 within 4 or 5 orbits, and then getting up and leaving merely to be replaced by another drunk tourist.

+1 mirrion

seriously, there is simply no excuse to ever be at a crappy table in Vegas. If you are at a rock garden table, you need to change tables and if you change tables 2 or 3 times and they are all rock gardens or full of tight wad passive passive trappy trappy players then FFS do a casino change.

Find a table with plenty of talking, laughing, and drinking going on while chips are just sloshing around.

Imo, table selection is by far one of the most advanced poker skills out there that those new to poker just do not properly appreciate. The right table can mean the difference between grinding sideways for 8 hrs or having a great 6-BI run.

It is impossible to overstate the value of a good table.

Also, on a personal note, I'm a big fan of changing venues whenever I run bad. If you've had a couple of losing sessions at one casino, then go to another one.

GL,

we are pulling for you

Alright, back in the black, all from 1/2 . I decided that I will not play scared money 2/5 and play beast mode 1/2 and 100bb 1/3 instead

I put in a decent amount of volume,already at 48.5 hours in 6 days, gonna try to keep it going without burning out. Today I get another shot at the free roll tournament at the Flamingo. Found out there is another one at Harrah's too so I will try to qualify there too. My last freeroll run was a fail as I busted out on my first BB, turned trips vs a underfull.

Hopefully I can ship one of these so I can have something to do during the WSOP.

And thanks for the seat/table/casino selection advice Duke and DGI, I am starting to get the hang of it!

moarrrrr posts fish

Haha. I had a big update post in mind but I've been too busy.

Just lost $900 in 2 hours at Aria 1/3 thanks to a set over set and another hand where I don't hold against a flush draw. I raged walked around the casino and decided to leave and play 1/2 at PH since its the weekend. A pretty juicy 2/5 game going so I am gonna sit in. Shot taking time!

GL OP.

Subbed.