LOL oh man just thinking of the guy trying to raise to $30 on the electronic tables is awesome.

I'm going to play a short(er) session at the Bike now, going to do one of those fun educational posts where I'm going to post *every single hand* I VPIP in and my thoughts.

ty for the comments!

In here now! Grinding the $4 an hour promotion

Sorry I lied. I ended up not going to the Bike.

HOME GAME TOMORROW!

Played 5-10 at a home game, up 690 today, profits almost exclusively from non-showdown winnings. I think I literally was up like 550 before I had my first real showdown where I raised pre, got called by 5 people, cbet flop and jammed turn with A6hh on J768hh, hit an ace on the river and he showed a J and mucked. Then had KK vs QQ AIPF, ran it twice and lost both boards.

Everyone at the home game was pretty focused on the Super Bowl so I just raised/cbet an absolutely absurd amount, no one wanted to play back at me. Seriously was insane how many $15 (blinds) or ~$70 (cbet) pots I was picking up.

So yea, my first home game experience. I consider the fact that I didn't get robbed a success, but the rake was actually or equal to the casinos, amazingly- it was 5% rounded down, so it was often $0 for the majority of hands. It was hosted by a fairly famous millionaire actor, so he kept the drop low because the money isn't that important to him (or at least that's what he told us, seemed legit. Very nice guy).

Umm I think I played roughly 4 hours.

LA total: $26645, 185 hours.

Those are the games to get in. I used to be invited to a 30/60 limit kill game years back that was hosted by an actor... the players all had money and just didnt want to go out.

I lost and played stupid the first few times. You dont want to crush from day 1.

hmm, the thing is even when you're making good plays, these guys will see you as a fish. for example I 3-bet a guy with Q2s and got 1 street of value IP on KQ533 (I was super aggro so I thought there was a good chance he was trapping me, I didn't see his hand). Every time I 3-bet after that they were like "putting in $150 with queen deuce again?"

Thx for comments!

Is it possible to play so good in home games not to be invited back? Just a thought.

^ no idea.

Played 4 hours PLO today, lost $1800. Mainly on 1 hand:

I raise to $60 pre with QQ77, 2 callers.

Flop T73, pot $190
Both check to me, I bet $140. 1 caller.

Turn 9, pot $470
Villain checks, I bet $350, villain jams for $700 more. I call (thinking maybe he jams 2pair or spades?? he's generally kind of spazzy). He has KQJ8 (which may give you an idea of how spazzy he is given the flop call). Again, the mistake of not folding when I don't have the nuts. Sighhhhhhhhhh.

LA total: $24845, 189 hours.

I guess it's not terrible if he's a notably spazzy player... but that's honestly not as pretty of a flop as you may think- yeah you have 2nd nuts, but it's a pretty draw-heavy board and a pretty slow set with overcards likely to come (and no other draws except for higher Q set). I see a lot of wraps jamming on the turn, not really missed spade draws unless he's a real spazz. T7 doubtful with the case 7, and T3 fits very few hands. Doubt 33 would jam there, too, again unless he's a real spazz. Maybe you had a very good read on him though, if he called with that on the flop...

Yea I mean this guy regularly peels with no pair and a gutshot, haha. I felt like he shouldn't have that many J8 or 86 in his range compared to 2 pair combos/draws, but then after I saw his hand I realized even attempting to do combinatorics against this type of opponent is completely worthless.

Although maybe he leads with 2pair instead of CRAI... I dunno. Honestly I really just need to make my own life easier and go robo-insta-fold-mode every time someone bets and I don't have the nuts.

I need your PLO coaching badly Steph :P

Stopped by Commerce since it was on the way home from a meetup.com event. Played 10/20 holy fk this game is the nuts. Like it actually tilts me that I didn't discover this earlier.

Think of the LLSNL advice to crush for 50bb/100+. Play tight, value bet, don't bluff because no one at 1/2 folds top pair, etc. etc. Now this is 10/20 and it's the exact same thing*. Except yea, just nit it up, and collect moneys because NO ONE IS FOLDING TOP PAIR EVER IN THESE GAMES. At least none of the ~25 people on the 3 tables I played at. You obviously won't crush for quite as much since you'll actually be forced to fold the best hand every once in awhile, or forced to call with the worst hand which happens much more rarely at 1/2.

*Amusingly, I suspect it's actually correct vs. a young unknown asian since I witnessed a crapton of people bluffing off their stacks or just getting it in way too light- for some examples:

1. a guy cold-4bet me with TT, original raiser flats, I fold 22, the guy jams on a 8 high flop, original raiser calls with KK- like I assume he thought he was value betting, but how the fk do you ever expect to get called by worse, seriously. I dunno maybe the fact that I assume he had thoughts at all is giving him too much credit.

2. I raise pre to $100 from CO with AT, get called by a UTG limper, BTN, and BB. Flop Q93, action goes check/check/check/BTN bets/BB calls/UTG raises/I fold/BTN calls/BB folds. These guys are like 300bb deep or something. Turn is J, UTG bets, BTN jams, UTG calls. River T... so like everything got there. UTG shows Q9o and wins the pot. wtf???? Only possible hand I can fathom BTN having is... uh... hmm....

3. I saw a guy jam about $400 pre, get called by another shortstack, board runs out AQ973, caller flips over KT and the guy who jammed embarrassingly mucks. LOL

So yea most of my profit comes from this hand:

Had 55 on TT5 two tone 4-way flop, this guy just straight overbet jams his entire stack for like 5x pot. K that's cool, collect moneys.

I was up $1902 in 4 hours.

LA total: $26747, 193 hours.

lol wow I need to play in that game, can probably only afford a shortstack though.

It looks like these games are way more aggressive than lower limit games (5-5 and lower). At 10/20 do you find that almost every pot is opened with a raise instead of a good amount of pots being limped at smaller games?

Were the average stacks relatively deep or did most people have ~1k?

Yea I'm not sure what it is but at least at the tables I played, people just loved getting their chips in. I'm pretty sure you will automatically beat the 10/20 at commerce if you have zero bluff frequency.

His play isnt bad at all. He can peel that flop because almost every turn card gives him a lot of outs. Anything over a 7 is good for his hand. You have a hand that can only lose a lot of $ if you get action. I bet fold the flop and I check back the turn.

These 2 sentences seem contradictory to me. You're suggesting he doesn't fold to my turn bet if it comes a 8, J, Q, K, or A? Then don't I win a bunch of money when he continues with those hands, not vice versa (even if I have AAxx instead of a set)?

The absolute best card besides the 9 for him is the Ace, and even then he's still behind vs. any overpair. On the other side of the spectrum, if it comes a K, Q, J, or 8, he's absolutely crushed if he continues vs my hand with <20% equity, along with all the times he check/folds on a T, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2.

Ive played the 10/20 at commerce extensively and the thing is its a different game. Everyone is aggro inc fish and there are a bunch of regs at a table that are in a huge variance war. 3b for isolation is a strategy that is used a lot and because of that you'll see a lot of crazy hands being played. As for being passive it might work short term and then they'll start to adjust and you'll still never know what they have.

This is why you may only need 3000 bbs for a 5/10 game but you need 10000 bbs for 10/20 and above, because of the variance wars. Starting off id recommend playing tag on the tight side. You wont win as much but once you start to build a deeper roll you have to open up and play lag or you wont win at a true 10/20 win rate.

Just my .02

I don't think they'll ever adjust to me, there were roughly 10 tables running and there's no way I'll ever get enough history with even the most frequent regs. And if it does happen for whatever reason, vs. those very few people I suppose I can adjust.

I strongly disagree that LAG is appropriate in this game. No one is folding to you preflop, no one is folding to you postflop, so why put in money with marginal holdings? At least in the few hours I've played that was the dynamic I've encountered.

As I mentioned, I haven't played enough to comment on the 10/20 game as a whole, but out of the 3 tables I played at, I guarantee any LLSNL reg-nit can shortstack it with zero bluff frequency and be +EV. Maybe not if your physical image is old man coffee but otherwise yea.

Thanks for the comments everyone!

I forget its lapc, Im talking about their regular games. And as I recall the games during lapc was deliciously juicy with people getting atc aipf... this is the best time to shortstack that game though I agree you are getting paid off super light

Ah yea that's definitely a factor. I played really late at night too so probably some busto tournament players in the pool trying to get even lol. I'm heading there now to put in a daytime session, will report on how it is.

Oh another hand I forgot I witnessed was where this guy called with J9 in position on a 5558T board and was good. I guess it's OK if you think villain is check/folding river with Q high, K-high, and A-high and betting everything else but wow lol.

Agree like everywhere else the games at Commerce get tougher every year and at 10/20 you will be playing many pros and former online pros most of whom are very good. The only small advantage at the highest levels is that some grinders who exclusively got their bankrolls by playing cannot afford the game while people with money can afford to play. But understand the games were super soft 5 years ago but the donks disappear and the good players don't.

I'm playing A LOT of players who I suspect are pros but they take very predictable lines (~100% cbet rate when checked to as the PFR in a 3-bet pot, ~0% river continue range on static boards after they lead two streets then check, etc.). In other words, they aren't that tough.

Note that when saying they're not that tough, I mean tough for me to play against. I'm not totally hating on them- in fact many of them will have higher winrates at the 10/20 Commerce games then I will due to their patience/discipline/ability to read weaker players' body language/etc.

I have played with a couple guys who I suspect will actually be tough for me in the future, but not enough hours to say for sure.

Anyway I played probably about 7 hours total today split into 3 sessions. 4 hours at Commerce, was up $2195, 1 hour at Bike, down $600, then 2 hours at Commerce, down $180. Overall up $1415. The reason I split it into 3 sessions is because I went to Commerce, then I went to the Bike to talk about the 2-2 PLO game which should be off the ground NEXT WEEK (!!!), and then went to a meetup event where this girl gave me the "I'd love to date you but it wouldn't be fair since I'm so messed up from my last breakup" line (wtf is my play to that), then back to Commerce.

Basically all the hands I won I went into calldown mode with a monster:
1. I raise KK pre, SB flats, then leads 3 streets on a 973QK board, I raise river and he instamucks.
2. I raise JTs pre from UTG, BB flats and leads 3 streets with TT on J96J3. Value betting WAYYYYYYY too thin there bro, but who knows I wouldn't be surprised if most Commerce unknowns call him down with worse here.
3. I raise T9o pre, BB 3 bets, I flat, he leads 3 streets on TT368 and instamucks when I raise river.

btw all of these hands were played vs. different players who I suspect (1 I know for sure) are professionals.

And here's a hand I played that demonstrates EXACTLY how to dampen your own winrate:

Unknown UTG limps, I raise BTN with T9 to $100, UTG calls.

Flop AJ6, pot $230
UTG checks, I bet $150, he calls.

Turn A, pot $530
UTG checks, I bet $330 (in case he peels 1 with a J or low pair), he calls.

River T, pot $1190
We both check, he takes it down with AQ.

LA total: $28162, 200 hours.

On my phone now. Will re look at the hand soon.

Hey dude,

I think you know this but I don't ever like your line on the last hand. Your turn bet is super exploitable.

Preflop 60/40, on the flop 80/20 and he is in bad shape but he loves almost any turn card that can give him 25% equity at the least.

So you have him crushed on the flop in absolute but not relative (I might be wrong with the terms). He cant always put you on a set here. You raised preflop and can have a wide range. Dont worry about your hand but what they think you have. Lets give you AAK5 with the A spades blocker. A reasonable hand here so far and you have 70% equity and he has to put in $140 to win $320 and he knows he is behind. But he has every backdoor straight and a BD flush draw AND 3 cards to the nuts. He calls....

Turn 9 clubs and now he is 75/25 fav here. I think this is the worst card for you to see besides the 9s. I would check back 95% of the time here. Betting why? Value? This is where my first statment came from. What is going to call the flop and then the turn that you are betting for value? Nothing (unless he is super bad). The only hands that will continue are made hands OR hands that have equity to call. KQJT is behind but not folding, KQJ anything isnt folding so I guess you may think value in NL terms but not PLO terms. He can also have 5689 or 56xx type hand that gets there.

Anyways, check back and fold to a pot river bet. I dont think I explained it very well here but the turn bet was not good. A case can be made for a small turn bet/fold line but I hate that as well.


And you say he is spazzy but I dont really see it. He can easily raise preflop with this hand and you are in a tough spot too. I am not saying he is good or even knows what he is doing but you have to adjust more to his range and not value bet as thin in PLO.