If you are raising hands other than AAds I have no problem with opening this hand obv. I raise pot on flop...turn is where I don't like. The only obvious draw came in and we full pot lead. This is so villain dependent. I start by leading less than full pot...something like 500 is fine. What can we get value from? Maybe a top end wrap, maybe top 2 with a gutshot (i.e. ATKQ...though we block a lot of that)

As played he is never bluffing when he slams it in on the turn over a POT bet...you are always beat here so it becomes a math problem. 9 outs once is ~20% so we need 4-1 to call...getting like 2.5-1 this seems like a fold to me.

It isn't that he is opening this hand it is that he is in the blinds and will never get the pot HU or w/e.

Maybe I'm a fish but in this spot I think a 0% PFR is correct in the limp/call heavy live plo game.

Think he is more likely to have the latter than the former but since you have a T in your hand it makes it less likely that you are up against like ATTxss. Plus if he had that most live fish are getting any set in OTF.

If he had a wrap and spades I think he flats with still one player to act behind. It doesn't look like you are folding so he has no FE.

I just don't think he is bluffing here often at all.

Oops missed that he was BB...meh I am more inclined to agree though I don't "hate" raising if we play better than our opponents post flop.

I would agree but pf to flop equities run so close together that if we are OOP and 100% going to be MW there really isn't a huge "skill" edge that you can have. Fwiw I'd probably be more inclined to raise like AKQJds or even AJT9ss with the Ass since we our hand has smoother equity to straights/flushes/top two pair etc... as opposed to AAxxds where if we don't flop top set or a fd we are kind of SOL when being OOP.

But I am basically just clicking buttons.

This makes such perfect sense... I just got "wishful" in the hand I guess thinking the guy was tilting.

This is why I post it - commit it to memory and don't do it again.

I'll have to start paying more attention to the detail of posts if I'm going to get back into responding - missed the 10 in your hand (which does make it less likely he's in there with an underset or top two, which some guys go nuts with). So with 21%equity against a probable straight you are well short of what you'd need to justify a call in PLO at least for me.

I'm not a big fan of running it twice in HE but I think it's a useful tool in PLO so if you are going to be a regular you might want to clarify the policy.

This is why Bip is beating himself up on the hand - he basically killed the side pot with the shove. I might have commented on the hand but Bip basically said everything I would have thought of to say in his OP on the hand.

I should stop posting from phone so I can read old posts while typing a response

Back in black!

.. music videos have improved since 1981.. hmmm

So a quick Wed night session - things went well, especially when I got hit with the deck at 5T for 30 minutes


1/3 NLHE $300 cap, 0:50, -$185
2/5 NLHE $1k cap, 1:25, +$439
5/T NLHE $2k cap, 0:30, +$1475


Results to Date:
4/8 Limit O8, 0:10, +$34
1/3 NLHE, 5:50, +$273
2/5 NLHE, 16:05, +$78
5/T HO, 1:30, +$1056
5/T NLHE, 7:35, +$1741
2/5 PLO, 3:50, -$1700

35:00, +$1482, 1.4 bb /hr



Always great to run the hottest at the highest stakes

Hand History Time - yay!

(going to keep a running tally of hands in thread, so this is hand 20)

Hand 20:

1/3 NLHE
10 handed

V1 ($230) UTG straddles 6 - I have played with this guy before. He is there for entertainment mainly but actually plays decent. He will gamble with straddles and such, but aside from that, understands hand strength.

Hero ($300) UTG+1 dealt A6 - Typically this is automuck for me. I am very very tight from EP (despite my overall loose game). At 50 bb effective (because of the straddle), it is tough to make a case for Ah6h being worth playing. ...but... this table has been very passive and they have yet to show me anyone can size a bet (rec players always go too small). As such, I decided to call here. When they can't size, you can decide whether 50bb effective plays like 200bb (by calling) or plays like 50bb (by betting yourself)

I call $6

V2-V7 call... passive, passive, ... etc. mixture of call stations and pout-or-fold (..trying to think of a way to describe a minor "fit".. can't call them fit-or-fold when they still don't bet much when they hit - lol )

V1 announces that he is going to slam the pot if his cards are decent.. he looks, laughs and says "Not Even Close!".. and checks his option.

Now, you have to pay attention to this stuff. A lot of villains love to have fun talking about their hand and they actually tell the truth This guy is serious, his hand is garbage.

Flop ($48)
JT2


V1 checks.
Now if you follow the thread much, you know I am a very aggressive player. However, one thing I hardly ever play aggressively is big draws When the villains can't bet size when you are drawing and can't fold after you get there.. they are worth a lot more as a made hand than as a semi-bluff.

I bet $15 .. thought I just said I don't semibluff .. and I am not! A lot of fish donk draws, but they don't know why... they think it is for a disguise (~ok) or as a bluff (meh). I hardly donk draws - except.. when I do it as a value bet

I am a former limit player. We are 8 ways in a limped pot and I have a draw to the nuts. The key is I am not just willy-nilly donking into 3 players... I am way underbetting into 8 players. I only need 2 more to come along to make this +EV (35% chance draw makes it, 33% of money invested is mine). $15 is likely to get a lot of interest in this pot. And yes, 35% here because I will get to see the turn and river... no one knows how to bet big enough to get me out on missed turns.

Sadly, I only get 2 players:

V6 ($310 - ABC weak tight in Late Position) calls $15
V1 raises to $40

V1 innocently announced his hand is junk preflop... let's range him:
J2 & T2 and that is his range. It is that simple. Seriously.

I call $25 more for $40 total
V6 calls. V6's range @ $15 was TP and draws, and now is pretty much pure flush draws after calling a bet and then a check-raise.

So V6 may take some of my outs, but even better - I can potentially overflush someone for their stack.

Turn ($168)
JT29

V1 bets $70. Hey, someone found their bet sizing all of a sudden. ... but... not really. $238:$70, and I need ~$350 resultant pot to get odds here. I just need to be able to count on $40 of implied odds.. easy. Plus the fact V6 might come along and take care of that immediately.

Hero calls.

V6 debates for ~1 minute... and folds... actually a great fold by this guy. (He confesses after hand he had 56 and was afraid of making his hand and still losing .. good read)

River ($308)
JT29Q

Well damn... we didn't get there.. but...

V1 (~$120 left) checks obviously frustrated. Notice the 4-straight on the board. I once read an article that said "always bluff 4 straights".. and if you don't want to do any hard thinking, that article is pretty much right.

In my case, this is a easy bluff because I am in position and the pot is $308 with only a $120 risk. I have to succeed a lol 28% of the time.. against a villain who understands hand strength and likely has no idea there is > $300 in the middle. Now, there are certainly spots you should not bluff the 4 straight - but this is a certain YES. Villain has to fear not only Ks and 8s, but better 2 pairs also. QJT9x is certainly two-pair making board. Most important, I am certain he does not have the straight himself!

I move my head around and motion for V1 to move his hands so I can see his stack ($120). He complies, then I announce "all in".

He snap folds, flashing T2 to me

He then begs me for 20 minutes to tell him what I had. I refused for a long time, but after I got called to move to 2/5, I decided to tell him.. he was upset. I regret telling him. He wants to go home believing he played well and got unlucky.. I was trying to just be nice and share since he was so insistent, but I think it backfired.

Oh well, good hand.

Hand 21 - implied odds

5/10
9 handed

V2 BTN ($1500) straddles $20 - recreational reg gambler
SB folds
Hero BB ($2100) calls $10 more with 76
EPxxx folds,folds,folds
V1 MP ($1600) raises to $80 - ABC player. Pretty face up.
LPxx folds,folds

V2 calls $60
Hero calls $60

So I am very comfortable heading to the flop with my hand. V1 likely has a premium hand, which is great - I am playing an implied odds hand.. the stronger and easier to range V is, the more value my hand holds. V2 has a wide range here.. but his post flop play will let me know a lot. His call certainly helps build a pot for the odds I want with 76s.

Flop ($240)
962

Hero checks
V1 bets $90
V2 folds

... I am not sure what to make of his sizing. I have not played with this guy enough to know if small sizing means monster (99), overpair (TT+), or means miss (AK/AQ/etc). For me this is a call anyways. He is not going to second barrel the whiffs and I will risk the 6 outer. If he has an overpair, I am approaching this as a 5 out draw where the implied odds are easily there (calling $90, I only need to prove I can get ~$720 total out of this.. $330 is already out there, just need $400 more with two streets to collect..EZ game). Now I am not going to try to bluff scare cards against this villain (Ace OTT, etc) for many reasons - his range hits that hard & mainly because he is aware enough to range me pre-flop and OTF... I don't have a lot of A-rag. Not to say I won't bluff, but if I do I will rep 78 or a set.

Hero calls $90

Turn ($420)
9625

Wow!! what a dream card..

Hero checks
V1 bets $125

V1's sizing is atrocious. But anyways, he is now all overpairs for his range. The sets would hurry up and the overcards would have stopped firing (because - range me.. what calls flop and folds this turn? nothing in my range..). The 5 was the next best thing to spiking a 6, because now I have 17 outs against an overpair. Even better, I can rep 78 and sets very easily.

I raise to $400

If I wanted to absolutely end the hand now, I would go bigger. But with 17 outs, I am ok building a pot to either value bet or bluff big OTR. My plan is to shove rivers I miss and ~1/2 pot rivers I hit (still expecting some folds from villain depending on what specific out I hit). My range is sooo much 22/66/78/65/99..on and on.. and his is so much overpairs.. he should actually fold now or at least fold all rivers (not that he will)

V1 calls $275 more.

River ($1220)
96256

I hit, so perfect. I am free-rolling now.

I bet $500
V1 calls quickly (wow! I expected some debate)
Pot ($2200)
I show 76 for 2 pair and he mucks while slapping his forehead.

Now, V is going to concentrate on his "bad beat" and mourn his KK/AA/QQ whatever it was... but a good V would re-run the hand and realize:
-I had 17 outs OTT (he never put this together)
-His flop sizing sucks
-He should have folded the river or perhaps pot-controlled the turn

I am very happy with how this hand played out (results and strat wise). The only thing looking back is perhaps I could have gone $600 OTR.

^edit above, the river card was a 7.. just a typo.

Nice session Bip! Does your sizing change if the river is a 6 vs a 7?

Hand 22 - my arch nemesis...

There is another LAG sorta like me in our room. The main difference in our games is that he will get more out of line from EP which I try to avoid (and IMO this is a mistake by him). He also c-bets with different requirements than me. When both of us tangle in a hand, the other patrons are always like wtf? when they see the cards at showdown. like, was 4th pair value betting there.. or did he think he was bluffing.. wait, was he even thinking?.. what did that guy call with that didn't beat that?@?.. that kind of level jumping.

Anyways, onto the hand:


2/5 10 handed.

V1 BB ($1200) - Lag mentioned above. He will squeeze, he will iso, he will balls to the wall bluff at times, etc. So of course, tough to range, easy to get value out of, but also hard to know when to call/fold/raise... best handled by playing IP against him.

V2 LP ($600) raises to $20- tight. but aggressive with more than JJ+ preflop, fit-or-fold post
Hero BTN ($1050) calls $20 with 75 - my call really has nothing to do with my cards.. I am calling to steal a pot from V2 on a later street. No reason to 3bet him, because his mistake is he folds too much post flop. His pre-flop actions are all pretty solid.

V1 makes it $85 total
V2 calls
I now call for odds and because IP.

V2 is now not QQ+, but leftover strong hands = AJ+, JTs+, KQ
V1 is tougher to range. I am not sure how loose he would squeeze here.. but I am IP, so this hand is to my favor because he likely has me on a wide range too. When I play a hand with intentions to bluff - I do always like my range to be consistent with small-medium pairs as a bluff of last resort (repping a set). I meet that requirement here by calling twice.

Flop ($235)
J86

Great! I flop open ended which is easy to play IP because implied odds are so good IP.

V1 leads out $135
V2 folds

V1 certainly tracks pot size. He is a very aware player, but this bet size keeps his range just as wide as ever. Overpairs, draws, pure bluffs are still in there. This board is "gapped-wet-preflop aggressor"... i.e. the boards I always say people's ranges are capped if they just call a flop bet. Meaning, if I flat, I am certainly facing another bet OTT.

I decide to raise to $300 (it is a small raise, but there are multiple levels between V and I... so I can take advantage of that and bluff cheap because it may look inducing too)

I want this raise to (in order of preference)
a) win me the pot now
b) buy me more options for the turn (check behind and see river, shove for bluff, etc.)

V tanks for a while and then calls. I have suspicions that he is on a draw more than an overpair. The small lead, the long decisions, etc. I think he has to debate what I have a bunch. I am very tough to range here for him... could have sets, draws, pure bluffs... With a made hand, I don't think he hesitates to 3bet me.. but I don't know for sure.

Turn ($835)
J866

Hmm.. not a bad card. It doesn't really improve V1's range at all.

V1 checks to me.
I shove for $665 more. This is my best line if I believe he has a draw. I conclude the initiative (so he can't win with bluffs), I have outs just in case.. and I put him to a very tough decision with his draw (i.e. is his draw dominated... he doesn't have odds pot odds.. drawing dead against a FH, etc?)

It also is not a horrible line if he has made hands. My bluff doesn't even need to succeed half of the time to pay off.

V1 tanks for -no-joke- 4 minutes... and eventually folds

I still do not have a clear idea of what he folded, and that is not a great spot to run huge bluffs (against a muddy range)... but it is more about history between villain and I... neither of us will ever have a clear picture of the other's hand - thus there is a lot of "hand-ends-with-shove-fold".

No, not really. Perhaps I could expect a bigger call with a 6, since 567x9 is not out there. But really, I know my hand is good in either case, and I don't think villain is putting me on hands that improve on the river. I think he is focused on whether an overpair is beat by a set/straight OTT, or that I was pure air.

After this hand, my opinion of V went down. I don't think he bothered to range at all. I think he just saw "big pair - I bet until raised - then I call until showdown"

And BTW - Hand 22, V1 - If you are reading, please let me know ?

V1 is clearly not very good and should be shipping the flop or folding and never calling your raise

FWIW I just don't do FPS plays on short stacks since it is easier for them to stack off with 500 than 1k

Thanks for identifying yourself. I enjoyed playing together

Ha its true, like calling here and ch/folding the turn is so bad.

Assume if he is tuned in he would be crazy to let you know

Let's do an exercise.. Give him AQ and then range me at the point of his decision OTF after my raise.

Then go through the actual result of each part of my range (obv I fold 75o to a shove, but my range is not 100% 75o)..

He gets snap called by sets (9), I fold dominated draws (tons of my range)... it is only a great move against weak 1-pair hands and total air that he thinks I would double-barrel with. And honestly, I don't have weak 1 pair hands there much, if at all.

I say you are being results oriented from Vs perspective... but I will listen if you build a results tree and prove the EV of calling vs shoving against my range.

.. exactly my fear. A lot of "in-my-head" strat here... would be deadly if a V found out.

But it would have to be a good V like this, most of them you probably don't need to worry about.

If I am villain in hand 22. I would:

a) call, lead turn
b) 3b flop
c) fold

those aren't in any particular order. his line is bad