Nice to see that you are trending up. I have notice that you are playing from the button or blinds in a lot of your HH post. Does that mean that you are playing pretty snug from other positions i.e., not getting into any interesting spots post flop from these positions? Without really knowing how many interesting hands you are not post, what other assumptions could be made about the positions that you are playing from? For graphs that you post, is it safe to assume that the charts represents your monthly results, unless it is an end of the month post or other wise noted?

Went on a nice little oma-heater today. I kept stacking off with what I thought was really good equity, and I was surprised to see how much above EV I ran today (given that I thought I kept getting it in as a huge favorite). Upon a little reflection, just seems it's the nature of the beast. Getting it in 65/35 in PLO is doing an amazing job. It's not the hugest of equity advantages and I'm sure one of these days I'll run poorly, lose all of them, and want my mommy. Fortunately, today was not that day.

On the NL side things were standardish. My card distribution was pretty bad. Mid session I was thinking to myself "damn I just can't hit a flop today". A quick peak at my HEM confirmed, 3% flopped set over 3k hands... so I wasn't making it up. Did what I could to break-even, not a bad result.

5.1 OMAHEATERRRR



I still have no idea wtf I'm doing in Omaha. Do any of you guys play this game? According to HEM I was playing 18/9 with a 4% 3bet. How nitty is that? Is that okay if I'm playing in lineups with crazy fun players?


The converter is not working for HH from 888 software. I'll post V's hole-cards manually.


Hand 1) Vrs fish
Seems like this is the game-plan for Omaha, overset the fish, hope to hold
SB was a fish too claimed to fold middle-set LoL PLO




Hand 2) Vrs megaLAG fish




Hand 3) G00t river
Experimenting with different flop lines. When you inflate the pot huge with something like a naked set, your hand gets toooo face-up and you get owned when the straights or flushes come in. This hand I decided to not do that. Guy in the CO who potted his turned nut-straight kind of did that exact thing. He opens himself to get bluffed on board pairing/flush completing rivers. Here the board pairs and I chose half-pot and he didn't believe me. I imagine these river pay offs (like the one V made) are what kill you in PLO. It's tilting but you just have to fold every time the river crushes your absolute hand strength.




Hand 4) Some flop rung00t
Are these double-paired hands good 3bet candidates? Have no clue what I'm even doing.




Hand 5) Sidecards FTW!
This hand was insane. I'm 450bb deep with the 3bettor. I'm pretty upset when if calls my massive 4b since I'm going to be in a lot of trouble if I don't flop top set or either flush draw on a non-paired board.

Really lucky to flop the oesd. Would have been pretty clueless without (against the guy with 150bb behind). Even still, basically flipping on this flop against spade rundown. PLO is sick




Hand 6) Fun player overplaying top set
I didn't want to stack off flop. Was really worried about running into a freeroll. Same logic on the turn, but decided to go with it. Very happy to see top set. More happy to hold




Hand 7) Hold'em Explo-fold vrs stationy/nit/annoying reg
Thought I had to triple here since he has the station note (AK/AA/KQ etc). When he raises sigh/fold. Think I also have to fold 66 here if I'm folding K6 since they're effectively the same.





Hand 8) REALLY clever line vrs agrofish
Andddd he gets there. Maybe when the turn brings a FD, when I check to induce I should jam to clean up equity (when I don't have a FH yet). These paired boards in PLO are really interesting.




One issue I'm running into is getting so "bored" of Hold'em while I have PLO games running. PLO reminds you how hard it really is to make a pair in Hold'em. That being said, the mixture of the two games keeps my energy/interest really high. I played 6.8k hands today... that's quite a bit more than normal. And even at quitting time I wanted to push more.

Yes. I play very tightly OOP. I like to be in position. Idk what other assumptions should be made. If you can clarify the question a little I can answer better.

I usually specify whether a graph is a nightly graph or the end of month graph. If it's unclear please lmk.

Don't like the 3b with QQ22 one suit. It's one of those hands that looks good. But it's actual value isn't that good. It's hard to make a nutted type hand unless you flop a Q. It has bad reverse implied odds. If you hit the 2 you don't really want to GII with bottom set in PLO. If you make a flush it will usually only be 3rd or 2nd nuts. Don't really like this hand.. especially OOP. I think calling or folding are better options. I'd probably lean towards fold OOP. Other than that, just found this thread and enjoying reading it, some of the lines/ thought processes you take are so sick

TY and welcome.

Thanks for the PLO advice. More feedback very welcome and appreciated.

You're probably very right wrt to that 22QQ hand. I still have no idea what I'm doing and when I get uber-rewarded with not-so-good play (like in that hand) it's going to create bad habits.

I could be wrong but I'm not in love with cold calling the x2 pair hands unless both pairs can make top set since the larger the SPR the worse 2nd or 3rd set is. In a 4bet pot any set on boards that aren't AXX or boards that have completed straights is going to be awesome. In 3bet pots probably any set is pretty decent too (because people shouldn't/don't call 3bets with too many pairs). It seems like people call 3bets with rundowns and then just jam over cbets on Q52r with their QJT8 or whatever (and put AA in a ****ty spot). So if you manage to spike 55 there, they make a pretty large mistake putting pressure on your cbet.

Like the only KKxx I want to call a 3b with is double-s00ted and drawing to some good flush draws or something like KKJT with 1 s00t.

Agree with the cold calling a hand like QQ22. On second thought flatting is probably the worst option. Also good point about the value of any set goes up in 3b or 4b pots. It depends a lot on how many people are in the pot, though. If you think you can get it heads up I like it more. If it's 3 or 4 handed I'm not loving bottom set. Depending on board texture of course. On that specific flop (I think it was K32) you murder it. But if the flop was like 210J for instance it's a tough spot. Someone can easily have a set on boards like that. I think people are calling with pairs a lot with hands that work together, like 8890 or 910JJ etc. Also people rarely fold to 3b in PLO in the games I play. So I think there was 2 people in pot already? In the games I play if I 3b there both will call and sometimes BB too. So going to flop 3 or 4 handed in a bloated pot.. it's a tough spot. I'd rather 3b with 2pair hands that have good odds of being top set if you hit or something that works together a bit more, like 10JQQ instead etc.. So this was a long winded way of saying I like folding there lol. But I also could be wrong, you're a much better player than me overall

I'm in.

TY! I've been sub'd to yours for a bit so glad to have you on board!




With a slow stock market (and an extra renewed interest in poker due to PLO) I find myself in a ridiculous schedule. Play poker til 1-2am, sleep 'til noon repeat. I found that games were best last night right around the 1am mark, but I was way too exhausted to keep going.

Last night's play lasted around 5 hours. I continue to run pretty meh/bad in NL, just don't find myself in many spots to value bet. Happy with my table selection/stake selection discipline so I'm not losing. I absolutely cannot complain since I ran so hot most of last month and found myself in tons of spots to get value.

PLO has me super motivated to grind again (even when I have like 6 NL tables on the side). I'm definitely auto-piloting away at the NL, but it is what it is.

Example of what NL looks like for me this sample vrs whale




5.2 Running Above EV, but still "felt" like I ran bad



Found myself in some tricky PLO spots. Would love some advice from any PLO wizards (or aspiring wizards) who read my thread.

Hand 1) Tough spot with middle set against decent reg and fish
Is turn a call/fold/jam? I really considered all options. Thought my equity raising flop would be really bad.




Hand 2) Repping a binked bdfd (with 2nd nut blocker) against regular
Does he just suck calling the river here with nut straight? I'm pretty sure my bluff is credible. I'm surprised to find that regs also don't fold in PLO.




Hand 3) Tough spot vrs UBER nit fish
V plays super loose passive pf (saw him limp/call double suited kings in MP). That being said whenever he raises pre/post whatever he seemingly always has the nuts. I kind of figured LOL aces/nfd and ripped it. Had 30% equity vrs his hand (which was KKdTdx) @ 150bb deep it turned out to be a pretty big mistake? Bet/fold flop?




Hand 4) Bluff catching fish with top set
He opens 35% utg and doesn't fold to 3bets. Also folds a ton to cbets. Figured I didn't want folds here with top set. But my hand is face up? His aggression isn't terribly high on turns/rivers. Is river a fold? Also he shows up with KKXXs, pretty much a terrible 3b defend right?

I don't think this guy folds flopped flushes (any of them) but I suppose I can turn top-set into a semi-bluff to try to fold out small rundown hearts. Also calling off river and being wrong = big mistake. Stacking off top set into nut-flush on the flop = small mistake. But ofc against a decent player x'ing back top set some of the time is probably very powerful. Meh

Upon further reflection, I like my line a lot against this loose/passivish fish. I just have to have the discipline to fold river. My turn call is never a mistake (equity+IO). A flop bet is bad (never called by worse). And my river call is too optimistic (guy plays passively, never bluffing).

Tldr conclusion flop check good, turn call fine, river call very bad




Hand 5) Caught with the hand in cookie jar
Learning that even in PLO, DO NOT BLUFF THE FISH




Hand 6) V Unknown
Another question. When unknown tightish passive guys 3b and then pot AXX do I just have to fold everything? I figured I had an A blocker and top 2 and that he could have some NFDS or NFD + pocker pair type stuff? Is this bad logic and he always has AAxx?





Appreciate any PLO advice you guys can offer. It's a really fun game and I'd love to tackle the learning curve as quickly as possible.

In hand 6, I wouldn't have raised him. If he was simply repping the Ace, a lot of times he would shut down on the turn since he was out of position. That bet only folds out hands that you're ahead of. Next time just float and see what develops.

Cool sounds good. Sigh folding on a brick if he pot jams right?

IMO yes. Without hearts in your hand, you could already be drawing dead because the board pairing to give you trips/boat could be behind his aces full. I do think that folding the flop would be a mistake though because villain is cbetting there 100% of the time.

Hand number 1 is played perfectly. In hand number 2 is the hand converter correct? You flopped top set and turned it into bluff on river? If so, that's pretty sick. What hands were you targeting to fold? Did you put him on a flopped straight specifically? I would have probably c/f or bluff catched there depending on the villain.

Glad to know h1 was played well. Still trying to gauge relative hand strength in this game.

Converter in 2 was accurate. Based on turn sizeing though he had exclusively 45 and yes I was trying to fold that out. Figured he could only call if his side cards completed a flush. Guess I'm learning that people don't fold when they previously had the nuts

Wow sick read haha

I don't think that it's just that they won't fold if they previously had the nuts on a prior street. Your story wasn't believable. It's extremely hard to make a backdoor flush. Most players have the attitude that when they run into one, they'll just pay it off because there are more bluffs in that spot than made hands.

Had an extraordinarily tilting day of poker. It's been a long time since I've wanted to smash a mouse or monitor over this silly game, but today was (close) to one of those days.

First orbit first table of the day I get cold 4bet blind vrs blind by a LAG annoying reg and I have QQ gii and he has AA. Kind of an omen of things to come for the day.

Found myself in quite a few tough PLO spots. I'm also completely clueless on how to play my middling hands postflop. (ie naked overpairs on boards with draws or weakish 1 pairs).

I actually feel quite fortunate to only be down ~5 buyins for the day. The last ~600 hands were very very not fun. Had I not quit I definitely had to the potential to do some serious bankroll damage (experience ftw!).

5.3 sighhhhhh tiltt sighhhhh



Hand 1) Vrs playmaster breakeven reg
I figured I have AK a tonnn of the time when I check flop here (especially against this dummy, I'm not balancing so JJ+ just going to pot flop/shove most turns). So when the jack comes in, I figure I should be able to shove and fold out his *entire* range. That being said, it's pretty poor logic b/c if this guy has say 89 (slowplayed) or a set or 2pr I'm not positive I even fold that out. So it's kind of spewy. I didn't expect him to ever have the hand he showed up with (won't spoiler) and I think his play is quite bad. It's a trivial backraise pre and I'm snapping worse a lot of the time, he generates a ton of EV that way. Going to flop is asking for trouble (when he doesn't smash)

If this play worked ( I generate folds a lot of the time, but probably from worse...) then I don't even think twice about it. Kind of hindsight weak logic but oh well. I actually don't think the play is all that horrible the more I think about it, he just should never have anything all that strong here and I'm so credible.





Hand 2) 3bettor is an insane LAG-fish cold caller is massive losing fish
Converter not working (3bettor had AAJx, the SB had 3pair)

This hand REALLY confused me. I double blocker AJxx but there's 2 of them in the pot. And also the 3bettor (even though he's an insane LAGfish) has to be pretty worried about someone showing up with flopped straights. When I jam flop, I kind of hope to get called by sets/2pr, but maybe it's too optimistic? When getting it in vrs AAJx I'm so ****ed. Is this really just a c/f? I suppose I can c/c and see what develops (I guess I'd also be c/c'ing exactly top set or 2nd set?). But I Think I have to fold if everything bricks and/or if the board pairs so it's a terrible spot. PLO is hard.

Take 2: I think not donking flop is a huge mistake. I should just be donk/folding here. If called, I can continue value-betting (I think), even though it's kinda thin.





Hand 3) Weak reg taking awful line
Sigh... I'm getting stacked no matter what. I don't know why I get upset/tilted when regs take terrible lines like this. It's like HELLO played more optimally and be better! He's saving me soo soo soo much money if/when I'm double barrel bluffing here. So bad

Further now his turn checking range (ie when the turn brings the flush and he doesn't donk) contains 0% nut-flush. Ie He's open to get barreled. That being said these weak regs just look at their TTd and go "herp de durp" call turn. And then the river bricks and they check and guess (and sometimes find the hero call). While this means I can't necessarily go crazy bluffing I can value-bet as thinly as I'd like (ie naked AA with no diamond).




Hand 4) Nut-bad river against unknown agro-looking fish

Think if he hits any of the other cards that improve him I find the fold. I always tell myself when the fish pot the river I'll fold EVERYTHING, but didn't have the heart to keep folding (since I was only pushing that button today). It's dumb because I do think he has 9T quite often...

But when 2 flush draws brick and tons of combo draws (stuff like TXss/cc) brick I have trouble talking myself into folding against this player profile.




Hand 5) Didn't have the heart to fold this one vrs agrofish
O look I won

I think I have a TON of work to do on my PLO cbetting game. I'm pretty clueless as to whether I'm supposed to cbet decent top pairs, overpairs, naked oesds, gutters, backdoors etc. I'm totally winging it. I feel like whenever I c-bet something like AAxx on something like 962ss and then the turn is say a queen not completing the flush, I'm completely lost.

HH Converter not working he had wrap and clubs 9c7c6cXx and wiffed




Hand 6) Monster explo-fold against guy who always shows me the nuts
Quite literally the top of my range. Doesn't matter this guy has QQ or AQ always.




Hand 7) RAGE runout
Have a read on V that he 3bets a merged range ip (value, middling stuff, bluffs) and then calls 4bets with stuff he doesn't feel like folding pre QTss, JTss, KJss, AJss, etc. He folds a ton to cbets so I don't want that to happen here. He also doesn't stab a ton so perhaps actually given that he can have some gutters and oesds I probably should just bet/shove. Anyways, rage runout. He *claims* to have had KJ (liar) when I raged in chat. But he has such a low WWSF that I just don't believe he's ever bluffing ever.

This one really pushed me over the edge tbh




Hand 8) Quadzilla, shocked I didn't get x/shoved over (by royal)
Fish making quite a bad call here

Again converter not working he had JJAXx





I've been grinding crazy hard the last few days and I'm (probably) going slightly insane. Going to get out tomorrow and then play my next session in the evening.

Having spent a fair of my time downswinging in live poker (where it takes way, way longer to realize your true ev), I have given this a fair amount of thought (although, don't think i have ever thought of "luck" as a quantitative measure). These are really things people dont think about when they are running GOOD - making the best hand and running into the second best hand, vs an idiot, while being deep-stacked AND holding up - these are factors that people generally ignore and attribute their win to skill (well, no, you basically just coolered a fish). I've came to learn that a form of running bad is when everyone bricks when you hit your hand (eg. top set on a drawy board in a multiway pot and everyone folds flop... ).. Seriously, running good in poker isn't even just about hitting hands, it's about someone else hitting the second best hand (or a hand they can put a lot of money into the pot with, with you holding up in the end). Variance is really crazy because it takes a lot of things for someone to run good, but so many of those are taken for granted.

I don't think that I would have found a fold in hand 7. It's so hard to make a backdoor flush. He would have to show me.

I lose to any ten also

Haha yep. That's why last month I kept posting that I "felt I was running really good" to remind myself I hadn't somehow magically reached a new plateau of NL skill and really I just had so many wonderful value-betting spots against weaker players.

This month it's been a small sample, but all it takes is a few sessions to start questioning yourself even after millions of hands. It's like no calm down, you still have a big edge in soft games, you're just not going to win when you 4bet AK and the whale flats 74o and it comes K77 or every time you 3b JJ-KK it comes AXX and the passive guy starts barreling. You have to weather the storm for a bit until things even out... as long as it takes. There's no shame in breaking even or slightly losing when you find yourself in constantly difficult spots. You win when you have monster value betting spots and they smash call with worse and you hold.

I'm sure things will turn around for you soon. I follow your thread and you seem incredibly solid.

Also, have you outed yourself? I have a theory about who you are but didn't want to out you if it's private//I could be totally wrong




Another topic (rant) I've been meaning to go on is about reg warring in NL, especially at the low and small stakes. I realize everyone has to protect their ranges and if they are not balancing bluffing with having it then they're too easily exploited by other regs, and then they're not going to have a winrate at all. I get that. But a lot of guys, in some noble cause to make their red-line go up instead of down, have decided they're going to incessantly 3-bet every spot, raise every turn, and do more than what is required to get their desired ranges protected.

In 2010 when people had no idea how to combat aggression, I could see that being a worthwhile way to play. But decent regs adjust these days.

I open tight ranges. You are not generating an extra edge 3-betting a spot you should 3-bet 5% of the time and doing it 9%. All you are doing is making me have to protect the spot slightly more. Maybe you're going to fold too often to 4-bets (that's usually NOT people response these days) or you're going to bluff jam or you're going to call my 4-bet. But all you're doing is increasing the variance, increasing the rake, and most likely not generating any extra edge. There are maybe 2-3 regs in the state who can play this style and make it work and even then all that hard work probably equates to AT MOST having a 1-2bb/100 edge on me AFTER rake. What's the point?

The bolded thoughts is pretty much my anti-tilt device.. you can't win every hand but they can't keep outflopping you with a worse range every time.. just gotta trust the math right? Lol.

This year has been going better overall, as opposed to last year (still quite skilled at doubling up fish in aipf/aiotf spots but at least winning decently from regs overall).

I havent outted myself on 2p2, and don't think I ever will. Do you play live? If so, which area? We might have crossed paths.

Nope don't play live. Just using deductive reasoning based on a few pieces of info. I'll pm you my guess. You of course don't have to confirm/deny.

Felt like absolutely nothing interesting happened in my sessions tonight. Continued to run meh and slosh around. It's definitely frustrating sitting in good games with whales and watching the stacks fly to other people while I have to keep folding. Ugh

Feel like I'm quickly improving in PLO (which is a nice feeling). Didn't do particularly well in the games tonight, but I'm starting to understand situations a bit better, specifically why position is so frickan important especially on the river. Basically you get to choose the size of the pot in a lot of situations which is nice. ie Whether when checked to if to pot (and set up a scary river situation). It seems like almost everyone is pretty imbalanced in that check usually = check/fold. And c/c flop usually means c/f scary turns. Also, if the river completes the draws and villain doesn't pot it into you, he's c/f'ing almost always (unless he's a huge stationtard or actually balanced --- haven't seen this yet).

It also seems like betting to take down the pot/protect your equity is so so so much more important with vulnerable hands and pot control is very secondary. Haven't run into much post-flop aggression really, seems like it's usually monsters every time. I'm still really confused how to play unimproved AAxx hands and KKxx hands but it seems like betting the 1 pair is usually the way to go. And if the board gets nasty then c/f.

I spewed off in 1 pot in PLO "trying something new" with equity. Ran right into the nuts. Lol. I had donkey-wrap equity at least so while I got in 140bb way behind at least I had 33% equity. Not the worst mistake ever.


5.4 Sloshing thru more run-meh



Hand 1) The PLO Spew pot
V was an unknown nitty looking guy. I had Ax blocker so figured I could rep a limped AAxx rag hand. Doubt he has much TT and even then it's no easy bet/call. I think he can have a lot of broadway wraps though which has me in pretty bad shape. Lesson learned. When they pfr and pot it 5 ways they have AAxx on AXX always.




Hand 2) Monster NL runbad
V is a nitty weak reg. Didn't even think he was squeezing TT all that frequently otb (and I think with his image it's probably not a great squeeze as he can't gii profitably). My flop raise is face-up/polar, but doesn't matter doubt he's folding QQ+ to me even though I probably almost never bluff this spot. Anyways, heinous cooler.




Hand 3) Getting hero'd by top set
Villain typed in chat "I should fold" before calling. Then said "but your line didn't make any sense". Lol I think I'm never raising a naked oesd on the flop. I can definitely float stuff like top pair or 2nd pair + oesd, oesd+bdfd (kind of very similar to what I had). I don't think I'm 3betting rundowns 100% of the time here (should I be?). And of course weird JQ gets there. I don't see how he can call but he did. Especially, blind vrs blind where my range can be super wide. I guess it makes me both more credible for having it, and more credible for bluffing. But having it means 2 straights here. Bluffing people off strong turn pot ranges even when the board changes and they just don't wanna press that fold button... sigh




Hand 4) Owned by the obvious quads line lolPLO
Was hoping to get shown QQxx obv. Is an MP open of QsJsJxRag good? Seems kinda l00z/fishy to me.




Hand 5) Some more run-bad
Hard to lose when flopping 3rd nuts and second set against a guy playing 80/40 but I managed.
Perhaps my 3b OOP without double suited or nut-suited is a little too l00z here. Should probably cawl here. Still learning.




Hand 6) Gift from PLO-fish
Need to find more fun players like this.




Hand 7) Winning monstar flip




Hand 8) Pot control/inducing bluff from aggro reg
Think he always pots nfds. So when he check/calls think my flushdraw is generally live. I suppose a really balanced reg has to sometimes check their nfds after 3betting, but I wonder when this starts to matter in PLO. Think my turn check is pretty superb as he's just c/fing almost everything if I bet.

Converter not working but he had 9764 2-spades. A very optimistic kind of 3bet oop I think but probably okay... From what I'm reading having a gap at the top of your hand is a pretty huge no-no so had he had 9864 I think it's a MUCH stronger hand.




Hand 9) Trying a PLO'bluff in NL
Literally a spot I NEVER BLUFF. (Yes readers you can exploit me!) But decided to try it once here. Villain IP is a regfish who had reasonable fold to barrel stats. Guy in the blinds is an actual fish with high fold to cbet. I figured the regfish would be a reasonable 2-barrel in that I think he has to have AQ at a minimum to call 2. But I would definitely explo-fold a lot of 2pair to really tight players here since the presence of the fun-player in the blinds should really deter any sort of bluffing. Also given that I'm LITERALLY UTG and open tight in this spot I just have an absurd amount of QQ, KK, AA, AK, JTss here. I chickened out on the river when the bdfd came in thinking he can have AhXx combos sometimes and/or I didn't feel like trying to get a regfish to fold 2 pair. That just ends in tears. Chat beration ensued of course. Never bluffing this spot again (yes, exploit me some more)

And the regfish shows up with AJ no hearts, nice ****ing hand





Hoping to snap up the 2-session losing streak tomorrow. Pretty sure when the tide turns in my favor I'm going to put a monster session specifically with some PLO god mode.

I like the play in hand one. You had an Ace to block AA, just didn't work out this time.

I cant decide if I want to say why hand three is a call