Introduction

My name is Martin and as a lot of you will know im a Tiltaholic.

Im a Full Ring No Limit Holem player on Full Tilt. Im not sure what level i play as i started the year at NL100 and the last time i played i played at NL25. Oh and i forgot to mention that at the moment im on a self exclusion from FT while i try and get my head together after the worst downswing i have ever faced which included a lot of tilt and a shed load of bad play.

Tommy Angelo couldnt have put it any better when he said:-

This is summing up how i feel about poker at the moment. When i play my A game i know that im pretty good and i have the results to back it up but when im in my C game i totally stink up the place.

Ive read all the books available on tilt and while i play well for a short time after reading them i soon slip in to old habits. Im currently in the middle of a coaching program with Jared Tendler to help me on this aspect of my game and i also have his book on order and if his sessions are anything to go by then the book will be very good. I think we have got a really good idea as to where the problem originates from, the thing now is to find a way that i can release the anger that builds up in natural way rather than blowing up like a volcano.

Theres links here to my old threads whcih i will also post below in the thread as well.

1st Thread Dont Be Scared Move Up

2nd Thread Dont Be Scared Move UP


This Thread


Im hoping that this thread is going to be different that my other threads that involved a lot of whinging and moaning. This one im going to try and make more helpful to people by including more articles and advice rather than bad beats. Theres probably going to be a wide range of topics discussed that will all lead to the target of Lopping Off The C Game. Im only going to be posting interesting hands and not cluttering the thread with bad beats as its obvious this is counter productive.

I’ve been there and done all the goal setting, the fantasizing about achieving goals, the reality of actually hitting a goal that you have set yourself. On the flip side I’ve also seen those dreams come tumbling down and the goal I have set myself getting smaller and smaller in to the distance until it is almost beyond unobtainable to me.

I’m not going to be trying to set myself goals this time around as the pain when you don’t achieve them when you expect you will out weighs the happiness the times you achieve your goal. I set myself a goal when I moved up to NL50 last year to be playing at NL100 by the end of the year. I met this goal a lot quicker than i expected and had success been a decent winner at NL100 over a large sample size. My goal this year was to continue to move up and see where it took me. When things didn’t go to plan and i hit a rough spot i would be disappointed how it was going and the fact i wasn’t moving forward as fast as i thought i should be and this sent me spiralling downwards faster than i thought was possible.

I think the problem with goals is that there is no gray area, you either achieve your goal or you don’t which can lead to a bad state of mind and a hell of a lot of disappointment. I think the way to go is to set yourself targets which although may in the long term help you get to a goal that you may set yourself, in the short term they will be the things that set you up for the long term. I think with a target it is something you can aim at and it is fine if you occasionally fall short as there’s no black and white with a target as its something you are aiming for and its ok to make mistakes as the only way we can learn is from our mistakes.

Take my goals for this year, I had visions of playing at NL1000 by the end of the year. When I had a bad patch I would start tilting which obviously made my results worse and eventually lead me to withdraw most of my money and then I went on another downswing and had no choice but to move down. In my mind the moving down made me a failure because if I’m moving down I’m not moving up like I want to be and this cant be good. I’m not sure I would have had the same problems if I had not been so hard on myself by setting goals that although may have been achievable had no flexibility allowing me to fall short. I think if instead I had set myself targets of continuing to try and improve and play my C game less and what not then there is more flexibility in targets like that. I can allow myself to tilt for a day and although I wont be happy about it at least I wont be thinking my goal is getting further and further away and by doing that heaping more pressure on myself. If my target is to play my C game less and I tilt for a day I can look at it objectionably and say to myself I’m not happy about it as I have fallen short of my target but tomorrow I will try and be better with out having any additional pressure of long term goals getting further away.

My target this time is put simply as Lopping Off The `C` Game. This will include a number of smaller targets on a Monthly, Weekly or even Daily basis that I will aim for to help me in Poker and in life. Such small things as making sure I exercise daily or play a session making sure I think about each decision. If I don’t manage to reach the target its ok as long as I recognize where I went wrong and practice again in the following days as with everything in life practice makes perfect.

This is an old article from one of my previous threads but it ties in well with the theme so i thought i would add it in full rather than link to it.


Ok this next post is courtesy of Nutedawgs blog which can be found here:- http://www.cardrunners.com/blog/nutedawg

Loving the idea of the varience simulator found here:- http://www.evplusplus.com/

Decided i would check it out for my hands from the begining of last year. 752K hands, 4.26bb/100 and a standard devation of 71.51. Heres the results:-



This plot shows the cumulative winnings of all the trial runs and is meant to represent what the Hold'em Manager or PT3 graph would look like for a player who always played with the given winrate and standard deviation.



This is a cumulative histogram of the distribution of largest downswings from all the runs. The far left (frequency of 1) represents the smallest downswing from all the runs (ie. everyone will experience a downswing at least this big). The far right (frequency close to zero) represents the largest downswing from all runs.



This is a cumulative histogram of the distribution of largest BE stretches from all the runs. The far left (frequency of 1) represents the shortest breakeven stretch from all the runs (ie. everyone experienced a breakeven stretch at least this long). The far right (frequency close to zero) represents the longest breakeven stretch from all runs.



This is the distribution of winrates for all of the trials.


If this dosnt scare me nothing will. just look at the difference in the top graph between the top winners and the poor guy at the bottom. Thats quite a scary difference. Also at its extreme an 80 BI downswing could happen to someone with my winrate. Now that would be soul crushing without a doubt as would a 400K hand BE stretch.

All in all though it does make me feel a little bit better about how its been going for me really. Some pretty frightening stuff when you experiment with the numbers.

never thought i would have said that...: first!

gl martin, short term targets are much better than long term goals. great idea id like some insight on playing deep (wether rush or standard) altho i think i get it, id like to see what u have to say as i havent seen any videos/articles on deep play

Hi MartL

Havent posted in a while as in final year of uni and been a hectic few months. Have my last exam next week and it will all be over.

Ironically, the degree I am finishing is in Sports Psychology, and so a lot of how you are feeling, your affected performance, goal setting etc is all going to be in my exam on Tuesday. So effectively your going to help everything I am learning stick as I am going to now apply a lot of it to you and how I would go about helping you.

I just started writing a long post addressing a number of issues that you have highlighted here and in previous thread. However, I didnt want to come across like a complete dick and start writing a load of stuff without u actually asking me to.

As you said your a decent winner without being a total "tiltaholic" so with a good mind-state you will be able to play every day to the best of your ability.

tl:dr

Thanks. Not really sure on playing deep. I guess i get the basics about how the value of speculative hands goes up and the value of top pair hands go down. But been a spew monkey i dont tend to like playing deep as i have problems spewing with just top pair. Its defnatley something i should look in to playing rush though. In the mean time heres a link to a post by Mpethybridge about playing deep. /micro-stakes-full-ring/concept-week-26-playing-deep-544405/#post12118914

Another link here:- http://www.pokerlistings.com/strateg...th-deep-stacks

Hey no worries that sounds pretty cool that my tilt problems may actually be able to help someone. I would be interested to hear you thoughts on the subject without doubt.

Hi MartL

Havent posted in a while as in final year of uni and been a hectic few months. Have my last exam next week and it will all be over.

Ironically, the degree I am finishing is in Sports Psychology, and so a lot of how you are feeling, your affected performance, goal setting etc is all going to be in my exam on Tuesday. So effectively your going to help everything I am learning stick as I am going to now apply a lot of it to you and how I would go about helping you.

I just started writing a long post addressing a number of issues that you have highlighted here and in previous thread. However, I didnt want to come across like a complete dick and start writing a load of stuff without u actually asking me to.

As you said your a decent winner without being a total "tiltaholic" so with a good mind-state you will be able to play every day to the best of your ability.

So im sat looking at my computer screen, the date is 18th December 2010. The reason i cant take my eyes off the screen is because i have just had my biggest winning day playing poker. Im up nearly 10 buyins at NL100 earning nearly as much in a day as i do in a month working my `real life` job as a Carpet Fitter. Im delighted and feeling truly baller and although im not one to brag about things i cant wait to tell people how much i have won. I think i have made it.

Fast forward 4 months and im once again staring at my computer screen. Again i cant take my eyes off my graph, this time though im looking at the graph in disbelief because i am in the middle of a 35 buy in downswing. December 18th seems such a distant memory now as i prepare to move down to NL25. Im in shock at how fast things have turned around and never believed i could have a downswing so bad as the most i have had in the past is about 10 buy ins.

The funny thing is, the more i look at the graph the more i seem unable to stop the rot. With every bad beat comes a bit more tilt and with every bit of tilt comes a bit more bad play. This all contributes to me never playing my A game for sustained periods becasue im petrified of what monsters lurk around the corner.

Anyone who has read any of my posts knows that i am ultimatley results oriented, almost to the extreme, almost to the point of looking at my graph and if it goes up im happy and if it goes down im sad. It isnt just a case of how im doing over the month or week that effects me. It can be how i am doing in the day or at the extreme how i am doing at the very minute that i am playing. It matters not how i have played in a session all that matters is the graph goes up or the graph goes down. Theres times that i look at HEM while i am playing and find myself delighted to be up but from then on every hand that i lose and every time i check and see the money i won fritter away just sends me deeper in to unhapiness and usually deeper in to tilt.



Bloody hell if i hear one more person say poker is a game for the long term i think i may scream. Thats the point though, i know poker is a game for the long term but even though i know it for some reason it dosnt register in my head while i am making my decisions at the table or taking a few bad beats. All i can think about at the moment in time is money that should have been mine that is no longer mine. This is the thinking that i have got to find a way of getting out of. When someone sucks out on me i shouldnt be dissapointed, i should actually be pleased as this usually means that i have outplayed my opponent and got him to put his money in while behind. We all know that once the money is in the pot theres nothing more you can do so if you get your money in good more often than your opponents then you will profit in the long run. Every decision that you make at the table should boil down to a simple question of what action will make me the most money in the long run? Yes its ok to get it wrong occasionally as unless you make mistakes it is impossible to learn.

Below is a list of things that i hope can help with this aspect of the game:-

1. Stop Checking HEM Repeatedly

This should be quite an easy one but i have struggled with this in the past as theres no real way to stop HEM been available while im playing. The steps i have taken to help me in this aspect are to take out all the winning indicators in HEM so i no longer have $won or bb/100 won displayed on any of my reports tabs. Theres no way to take it out of the sessions tab but i will have to show some discipline here by trying not to look at this section. Even with those things not displayed it is still quite easy to review hands as we can use the filters and really we should be checking over most of the hands in a session where we have put money in the pot anyway and not just the big hands. Im hoping this will cut out some of the instant tilt i feel when i check HEM and see that i am down money.

2. Realise You Can Play Well And Lose And Vice Versa

This speaks for itself really but it is something that i obviously have trouble understanding because i am results oriented. On any given day i can play the best poker i am capable of playing and still lose money to the worse player that has played the game. In the short term varience is at its highest but as long as i realise that by making more good decisions than my opponent i make money in the long run. Realising that the graph can go up when i play bad and can go down when i play well is the begining of getting out of results oriented thinking.

3. Work With Ranges Not Specific Hands

Im really bad for doing this mainly because i know the hand that beat me. Although we should be doing session reviews on a regular basis i have found it quite interesting to go back through my database and pull out random hands in medium to big pots and run through the hand and try and put my opponent on a range. When i am tilting though i never do this instead just going over big pots and not really considering my opponents actions or range and just saying to myself that i got unlucky here or my opponent got lucky there.

4. Make Good Decisions More Often

I mean this in the context of just because i know i am up for the session i may decide just to call with Ak instead of 3betting and facing getting shoved on by a loose player and getting my money in on a flip or as slight favorite. Ive done this many a time and it all boils down to been results oriented. Every decision i make at the poker table has to be what i think is the most +EV play regardless of whether i am up or down for the day or session. If i get my money in as 60/40 favorite then in the short term i am going to lose some of these and thinking of results i am going to be dissapointed when i lose and elated when i win yet its just simple maths that says we look in to the future and i make this play then i win in the long run. So basically every hand i play has got to be seperate and not just looked at as part of a session which i do at the moment.

5. Stop Using Negative Words

Words like `Always` and `Never` are words that dont leave any room for any middle ground. When posting in my thread i find myself using words like this more and more often when i am running bad or playing bad. One of the regular posters in the thread actually pulled me up on it at one point. How many times have we asked ourselevs " Why do i never get any luck?" The more and more we type things like this or say things like this the more and more our subconcious starts to believe it. When related to poker eventually we convince ourselves that we dont get any luck and this makes it very hard to be objectional when we are doing things like reviewing hands.



This is one area of my game that needs some real work and im sure if i can do any of the above on a regular basis then long term i will reap the rewards. Im not just talking about earnings, im talking about improving my play and also improving my attitude away from the tables to some extent. Im going to have to fathom out a way of trying to keep track of how im doing with these things. Things like going an hour without checking HEM may be a good starting point and moving on from there. Obviously these targets will have to be flexible as its not something that will change over night but like poker its something that i can hope to improve over the long run.

I've been following your previous threads with great interest and now I will follow this one definately. Some great thoughts about why being results oriented is so bad. Unfortunately (for me) I should say you are not alone there. Checking HEM over and over again is definately one of my biggest problems during my sessions (for the record I play mainly 5nl and 10nl rush). It's exactly as you say up to the point where I don't 3bet a certain hand that I normally would, just because I am up for the session...
We are in the same boat regarding tilt either. There are times I want to try to put my fist through the wall... though I try to minimize these.... a lot of consecutive bad beats and I quit and do something else cause I pretty much forget that there is a fold button post flop with my good hands when on tilt.
Anyway - wish you a lot of luck on the tables, I will follow how you are doing.

hey mart, stupid advice: what about filtering your session stats in order for you not to display your actual stats? if you choose couple of filters, and put stakes you're not currently playing it'd take some time for you to clear them all and maybe stop you doing that.

Thanks for reading. Yes feel free to keep calling in and joining in.

I tried some thing like this and became a bit of a whizz at getting things back to normal lol. I think its just going to take some good old fashioned discipline.

Played my first game in over 3 days today. 3 tabling Rush at NL25 and just concentrating on making the best decisions possible. I played for just about 20 minutes as i want to start slow and hopefully build up getting in to good habits along the way. I think i played quite well and took my time when making decisions. Just a couple of hands to through really, one where i stacked off with AK and ran in to AA and another with some value betting questions. Took my time with the AK hand but not sure if its a mistake or not, when the villain showed AA i cant say that i didnt feel anything but i quickly brushed it off and told myself i had thought the decision through before taking action so if its a mistake its a mistake and if its some type of cooler then fair enough which is what i will try and work out.

Villain here is 100/100 after 4 hands. Forgot to have a plan when i raised the river. Need to work on this so i have a plan for what to do if i get re-raised. Other than that i think the hand is ok.





First villain is 28/12 after 27 hands, 2nd is 33/11 after 9. Im still betting the turn arnt I? Theres plenty of worse hands that are calling bets here isnt there. If both players call whats my play on the river? Check/fold or small blocking bet? As played my plan is to fold the river if raised because i dont see him raising with a hand i beat. Again though my bet may be called by a few over pairs to the board so i think theres value in betting.





Villain is 12/10 over 1K hands. RFI from the CO 22% his fold to 3bet is 79% from 14 samples. His 4bet is 14% so if im working this out right when i 3bet he is continuing with 21% of a 22% range. This is about 4.62 so against this range my shove is plus EV isnt it? But ive got to work his 4bet% in to this as well dont i because some of the hands he just calls with. So is my thinking right that he 4bets 14% of a 4.62% range which comes out at 0.64? If this is the case when this player 4bets me im actually making a mistake by getting it in with AK. Now obviously its not a big enough sample size to be that acurate but it at least gives me an idea, ive missed out allowing for card deductions as well but if this player 4bets and i have AK then i probably should be even more worried shouldnt i?

Hi MartL...

You hit some obstacles, but you're still going strong. I'd highly recommend trying the new beta of Leak Buster since you already have it. There's a new priority ranking of leaks, and a new post flop analysis function I think would be helpful to you.

I can see you've become much more thoughtful about your game, so it's just a matter of knowing what you should be working on first to improve your winrate and get your confidence in a good place. GL.

Download link is at the bottom of the thread:
http://forums.holdemmanager.com/leak...-released.html

back to played poker!

KJs hand looks good, i like the river raise size as villain is very weak here.
i sometimes would raise the turn though, villain size looks weak, and there are some draw out there.

QQ hand there's a lot of value in 3barrelling vs. this guys. river is a x/fold if still 3handed imo. bet sizing looks also ok. maybe smaller ott.

AKs hand i'm a little lost with the maths...lol...not sure if i'm saying something stupid
sample size is small, of course.

i actually think your 3bet is +EV regardless of the cards, but the shove is -EV

Original range is 22%
when we 3bet he folds almost 80%, making your 3bet +EV.

his C range is, let's say 20% of his range, which is around the top 4% of hands. at this point, being sample size so small it's not important to calculate what his 4bet range is, because with the stats we have i guess it's always AA (which of course can be not accurate).
if his stats converge like this in the long run i think we're flipping when he flats, and crushed when he 4bets. so we're actually looking for folds, we are not 3betting for value>>we should fold to 4bet and should 3bet more frequently as a bluff and probably smaller in size.

i'm a little lazy with the maths, so i guess somebody else could come up with something more useful, and maybe right