Hope it works out for you, these things suck

also having coaching with chillskill, had 5/10 sessions so far

as for arranging sessions yeah it can be sporadic in terms of booking but i THINK it's because he has a lot of students or because he's busy irl/travelling etc.


been away from poker for last 6 weeks but just now messaged him asking for a session, hopefully he will get back to me within a few days to arrange one.


As for you requesting the money you paid back, awkward considering you only wanted one session, and then after paying for 5, not booking anymore, and then requesting a refund. I understand that his lack of organisation/time keeping skills may blurr the judgement call on something like this, but in general when you buy a package a coach is obligated to give X many lessons, so not giving a refund isn't technically doing anything 'wrong'.

Hope it gets sorted out! Chill man get back to us!

Sorry but did you read the post? The fact that my very initial intention was to purchase one lesson and only one lesson was actually completed is a pure coincidence. The five lessons could have easily been completed by now. The additional sessions are of no use to me at present. I don't think what I'm asking is very far-fetched. It's less than 1bi for chillskill at his main game.

hey there. In jesse's defense I have been away a lot lately and that is completely my fault.

In my defense, jesse has also been very unorganized in terms of scheudeling the classes, like Ive told him days sometimes and he doesnt answer for example, or he has been away for long periods of time as well.

the interest in scheduling the class has to come in the end from the student imo, he has asked me sometimes like when can you do a class, I tell him for example on Tuesday, and then he doesnt answer anymore. And yes I have done the same as well, and thats my bad too. but It has been bothways imo, lately it has been more on my side and I assume that

In terms of the refund, I usually dont refund, unless its a super like clear reason for me to do it tbh. So yeah... I dont think I should be doing it in this specific case.

here is the rest of the conversation, It still hasnt ended, but well, just so you guys can read it






thats the conversation we had. tbh I have no problems at all with jesse, and I think he is a decent guy, I just would have liked some notification before he came to the thread, but I wasnt really the most responsive atm so I understand him

there are some parts which can be hard to read because he copy pasted my messages on skype, and when you copy paste convo after to post here it looks really weird, I tried my best to order the text so its easier to read, but I didnt change in any way the content or context of the conversation


well gl guys, hope this sorts out

Chillskill, I like you but having spoken to a couple of your students they have said similar things about you being unavailable. It appears woollyy was willing to have those 5 sessions with you and actively tried to book them, if he hadn't I would agree with you that he shouldn't be refunded but that is not the case here. Peoples circumstances change, just like yours changed after accepting money from him, you weren't able to provide the coaching in the time period he or you originally expected it to be completed.

I can't tell you what to do or not do but i think it would reflect in a very poor light if you just pointedly refuse to repay him when it is likely your unavailability that has caused this situation. His request for a refund on unused hours is not unreasonable given that he would have likely taken the sessions within this time frame if you were available as he seemingly expected.

Charging him what your hourly session was back at the time he booked his lessons (non discounted rate) and return the rest seems like the most sensible conclusion to this.

It does seem from the convos the guy posted that he didn't book some sessions after chill gave him exact days he could do. Makes the situation less straightforward imo. Do a partial refund?

+1

Based on all info from both parties above, not refunding in this case looks bad imo

Then, simply put on the business end of things:

Seeing a refund in this case would make me comfortable considering purchasing a coaching package from chillskill in the future.

Not seeing a refund in this case would pretty much guarantee I would not consider purchasing a coaching package from chillskill in the future.

Nothing to do with the coach obv, seems like a great, knowledgeable guy, just talking from the point of view of a "potential student/customer/consumer"

Sure, but in context jesse was obviously trying to make himself available more than what CS was making himself available. It's really not one persons fault that this has happened, it appears to be circumstance and with that being said it seems by far the fairest to just refund the money for unused hours. Anything else is pretty ludicrous and just threatens to blow up in the thread like it has for so many other coaches that have taken this approach to these types of issues.

I have nothing against CS btw, he seems a nice/smart guy so I hope he shows similar sense here.

Should be a clear cut refund here

+1

Not giving a refund would make you look bad as someone stated up there, not giving a refund is basicly angleshooting here, simply because a guy clearly stated that he got a staking/coaching deal for himself, and you know that you can't provide the level of service to him that he thought you could before.

meh, i got a response within 3 hours and within another 6 we've set a date for next week for a session

although perhaps it may have been prompted by the bad press itt, regardless idc haha

hope this gets sorted out fairly

agree with ponty

He never refused a session, and still offered them even after being called out in a pretty classless way (needed to at least give an ultimatum like: "I'm not happy with how things are going, we need to sort it out or I feel like I need to post an open letter in your thread"), so I think a refund is unfair to ask for.

Jesse clearly stated ITT that 1: He only wanted one session & 2: That session improved his game. To then ask for a refund shows incredible front if you ask me. Coincidence or not Jesse, you need to be aware that it looks from the outside that you got what you wanted out of the session and are trying to strong-arm your way into only paying for that one.

Chillskill is a poker coach, not a college lecturer, classes aren't at set times, will often be cancelled, and at the end of a day for most people coaching poker, it is a sideline to playing (unless they aren't very good).

Chill has responded like a gentleman, so you could probably apologize for making things public and continue the sessions as was agreed, or write the money off as an investment you hadn't thought through carefully enough, and focus your time on making it up using the new knowledge you have gained from him and your new coach.

Hope you both learn something from this experience and stay amicable.


- SW

you do realise its not a full refund right?? hell be paying for the session that improved his game. seems such a standard spot to refund. to only do one session in a few months is a joke (yes some of them was wolley fault) but still. its been 4 months for one session lol.


also what are people supposed to do if they pay for a set of sessions and totally disagree think chillskill coaching is useless on the first session? seems pretty silly iyo

Agreed with above post, however kind of disagree in having to make someone commit to 5 or 10 sessions without having a prior coaching session.

[ ] reading comprehension is strong with this one \/

He never agreed to sessions either. Leaving me hanging when I was trying to confirm a time & date for them.

LOL at it being 'classless'. My post is more than fair. I left him two messages over the span of two weeks to indicate my situation and he never responded. I posted a detailed, accurate representation of our interactions. I never made it personal. I think chillskill is a very qualified player and displayed strong coaching abilities. I don't think he's a bad guy or dishonest. What I do think he is is disillusioned with the coaching process and the diligence required to coach professionally. He's offering a public service. Candidate students have the right to be aware of what he does and does not offer.


Answered this already but I'll explain it here so it makes sense to you (hopefully). I wished for one session originally to gauge his ability and the usefulness of his coaching. I enjoyed it and thought it was quite good. I would have booked additional sessions regardless of the five-session package I had purchased.

Quite a stretch of the imagination to believe I'd pay an extra $440~ for more sessions and wait four months to attempt to retrieve the funds by, as your hyperbole laden assessment put it, 'strong-arming' my way into it. If you actually believe this may God have mercy on your soul.


Possibly the only thing worse than your ability to read is your ability to construct a solid analogy. I payed for a service. Not sure where you're getting the 'classes aren't at set times' BS from. I've worked with 4-5 coaches over my career and all have set lesson times.


Again, my original post was carefully worded and avoided my personal feelings toward chillskill in any way.

Back to the discussion of reading comprehension. If you read chillskill's post that displays our most recent Skype conversation you may (or may not) notice that I am receiving carefully planned coaching from another player. There is no use for me to receive coaching that will deviate from the set strategy I am learning.

>"Possibly the only thing worse than your ability to read"

>"I payed for a service"




Hmm . . .

Speaking of paying for a service:

Jesse: "ok so how much for two minutes, that's all I need"
Hooker: "Sorry, I charge by the hour"
Jesse: "Yeah sure, that's fine"
. . . . .
Hooker: "wow you weren't kidding, want to go again in a bit? Plenty of time left."
Jesse: "Actually, I enjoyed those two minutes but I've called up another girl, she'll be here in half an hour for when I'm ready to blow my load again, I have no further need for your services, can I have a partial refund?"
Hooker: "Hell no!"

What about, pay the hooker for an hour, she leaves after 5mins and refuses to come back for 4 months?

haha its good to see Im a hooker now :P

Im just reading what people opinions are, as I said I dont really want to have any problems, or create "bad blood", so I mean if most people think its fair for me to refund I guess Ill strongly think about doing it.

tbh Im not 100% sure If I should proceed one or the other way. but yeah, reading what you guys have to say is interesting to forming an opinion. I see good arguments both sides. but I see more people taking the refund side, so I guess Im inclining towards that option atm.

Not sure if that guy is trolling or not but those are terrible arguments. He wasn't called out in a classless way, CS hadn't responded to woolly's messages about this issue for quite some time it seems. Woolly has no personal problem with CS at all it seems and says as much himself.

Look it's pretty simple, circumstances change and he was unable to get his second session within a 4 month time frame. It is clear that he wanted the rest of his sessions so it isn't even remotely conceivable that he planned this to only pay for one, just read the transcripts of him asking for a 2nd session. It's easy to blame one or another but it does seem like woolly was pushing hard for more sessions.

There are some very reasonably minded and respected posters here who have so far all said the same as my previous posts.

Refund yo. Only thing that makes sense.

Definitely zero chance he did this with the intention of getting a refund for other 4.