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another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread

12-04-2014 , 09:18 PM
Ok thanks so Hand 1: ai is ok, call if deeper. Hand 2: dont be an idiot Hand 3: call with the strong hand - especially this last one is useful, it popped up before to, i need to do it more often. This was actually helpful especially that first i booked these as coolers that dont need much attention...

Las Cuevas

Today i went for a half day to the beach for some boogie boarding and it was nice. (no pics sry although this beach is really beautiful, just as you would imagine a Caribbean beach) On the way home though i probably had more fun than on the beach. The road is really nice, going over the mountains with the last chunk carved into the coastal cliffs. It was built in 1942 so it is quite narrow and windy when i first drove it i thought i am in one of those old Test Drive games.
So today when i drove back home i randomly started to act like a rally driver. I have a shabby rental car with with an automatic drive but using drive 2 instead of D gave it a bit more pep. We are talking about a Nissan so 'pep' is relative of course. There was hardly any traffic so i had a lot of fun with speeding and breaking and cutting curves like a pro, lol.

Then when i got home I watched the only rally clip that I ever cared for, Ari Vatanen's Pikes Peak Hill climb clip, awesome stuff.
This is only funny because I absolutely not into cars, but apparently racing is somehow coded in every man's genes. Good times.

another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
12-07-2014 , 12:57 PM
OMG i folded AA preflop !4!!

and of course now i feel bad about it. Needless to say it was a deep hand where I usually struggle more.

Here is the hand:


    IPoker, $0.10/$0.20 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #33186611

    MP: $15.34 (76.7 bb)
    CO: $25.04 (125.2 bb)
    BTN: $51.46 (257.3 bb)
    SB: $28.97 (144.9 bb)
    Hero (BB): $51.40 (257 bb)
    UTG: $24.10 (120.5 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with A K 5 A
    2 folds, CO calls $0.20, BTN raises to $0.90, SB raises to $2.60, Hero raises to $8.90, CO folds, BTN raises to $29.50, 2 folds

    Spoiler:
    Results: $20.60 pot
    BTN mucked and won $20.60 ($11.70 net)



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.



    Ok so MP limps, villain pots on the Button and a very LAG SB 3bets. I 4bet and expect to get it HU with SB but Villain 5bets.

    Now Villain is a tight reg with who i play with a lot. He runs 24/15/3.2 over 6k hands and when he 5bets here 250BB deep, i know he has AA and nothing else.
    I already invested 8,9€ but the problem is my AA is almost always worse then his. I have 46% vs AA**, 43% vs AA:ds and 45% vs AAT9 so on average let us calculate with 45%.

    My EV if i fold is -8,90€.

    My EV if i call(shove)=(51.4+51.4+2.6+0.2)*0.45-(51.4+51.4+2.6+0.2)*0.55=
    = -0,1*(105,6)=-10.56€

    So apparently folding was good. Interesting. I of course did not run the calcs when playing I mostly folded because of the downswing i am going through and how i ran yesterday specifically.If I would run better i would have shoved lol.
    Although if i think about it vs this guy, so deep, maybe not
    another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
    12-07-2014 , 08:37 PM
    Week 9

    And down again. This downswing is now 55 Bi in 28k hands and of course this could go on much longer

    Did not have a winning day this week so after winning months and weeks i can scratch winning days too.

    As a PLO nobility said once:
    "It’s easier to stay motivated when you can see the finish line, or you enjoy the ride."
    Well I certainly do not enjoy this right now but having a visible goal definitely helps. So the plan is unchanged - keep playing until the end of the month and then we will see.

    edit forgot the numbers: 26,2 hours, 6,7k hands - at least decent volume - -13Bi


    Last edited by Pg9; 12-07-2014 at 08:40 PM. Reason: numbers
    another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
    12-10-2014 , 02:20 PM
    HU Hand, bad call

    lately i started to enjoy playing HU. I don't play HU per se only when starting tables. I have never been good at it so there is a lot of room to improve.

    Here I made a river call that I am not sure about.
    Villains shove is just a little bigger than 1/2 pot so i snap called but thinking about it more when he called my turn check-raise he did that with 80% a flush draw. On the river i thought that he might have enough sets in his range but sets would probably shove turns because he would put me on a flush drap+little sg instead. I also thought about him having some blocker bluff but how would he get to River with that?

    So all in all i think this is a bad call.

      IPoker, $0.10/$0.20 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 2 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #33289691

      SB: $20.90 (104.5 bb)
      Hero (BB): $20.54 (102.7 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with 3 7 5 T
      SB raises to $0.60, Hero calls $0.40

      Flop: ($1.20) 2 A 7 (2 players)
      Hero checks, SB bets $0.84, Hero calls $0.84

      Turn: ($2.88) 4 (2 players)
      Hero checks, SB bets $2, Hero raises to $8, SB calls $6

      River: ($18.88) T (2 players)
      Hero checks, SB bets $11.46 and is all-in, Hero calls $11.10 and is all-in

      Spoiler:
      Results: $41.08 pot ($1 rake)
      Final Board: 2 A 7 4 T
      SB showed 4 Q 8 K and won $40.08 ($19.54 net)
      Hero mucked 3 7 5 T and lost (-$20.54 net)



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      another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
      12-10-2014 , 04:13 PM
      River looks like a check and work from there. Fold to a shove. We expect him to check back hands we beat and he wont have enough bluffs to justify a call at this point. So your onto something with your post tought process.
      another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
      12-12-2014 , 05:16 AM
      Hi,

      be more optimistic about your future sessions and play these games with confidence!

      About your hand, you said it yourself, once he calls your turn check-raise, what range do you put him on? FD, wraps+fd, some villains call even with 2 pair or set.
      So on the river they would x back there set and 2 pair, and most players on ipoker would even check back their missed draws, so just fold!

      Gl mate
      another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
      12-12-2014 , 09:54 PM
      Thanks guys, it is good to have some feedback. Interesting hand, i learned something new again. Before i mainly looked at the bet size and thought that he might bluff enough times to warrant a call. However if we look at his bet/call range on turn we don't see much that is shoving river.
      I think this is actually a fairly common spot so getting it right more often than not can save/make a lot of money.

      peez, thanks mate, i actually deal with this much better than i expected. I do feel bummed out after bad days but i can steel myself the next morning and go at it again. I still feel strong that i rather do this than anything else at the moment so my motivation is still there. I study quiet a lot (compared to myself) and that is actually fun too, these days often more fun than playing so all is good.

      I am just getting bored of myself complaining so i will stop doing that and report results only and maybe write something more when i am over with it. I will of course post more hands and some pics - i actually have some right now.
      another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
      12-12-2014 , 10:31 PM
      Beach again

      Spent the last 2 days off the tables (i am actually eager to play a bit more) and mainly on the beach again. I bought a used body board partly because i cant surf and partly because usually the waves here are more suitable for that while too often not big enough and regular for surfboards.
      The last few days we had a swell coming in so we tried our luck and boy we got more than we wished for. The waves were bigger than i ever seen here before. That in itself would be fine of course but unfortunately most of them crushed way too fast instead of rolling out gently and friendly. I think the biggest ones were unsurfable not just for us but for everyone else too. We did spend the whole day though walking up and down the beach and trying out different spots and i had some good rides and only got washed out just one time so all in all was a good day..

      My friend walking down to the surf spot. He got there a few mins before me i shot that from the parking lot.


      He again, getting a good wash.


      And that's me hanging on to my board and dear life..


      Evening sun.



      Will try to play a lot tomorrow and Sunday, I am way behind this week's goal.
      another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
      12-14-2014 , 09:31 PM
      Week 10

      19 hours, 4,2k hands, -6,5 buyins

      another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
      12-17-2014 , 06:41 PM
      I post for the run good, but not vs me lol

      Nice pics
      another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
      12-18-2014 , 08:56 PM
      I think i know now who you are - your nick starts with an 'h' if i am correct??
      And thanks, i am playing a bit less on ipoker now.
      another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
      12-18-2014 , 10:56 PM
      UPDATE

      poker - same old. I still can't win at showdowns but i don't care that much at the moment,
      it will turn around. I did play some on PS this week to participate in their
      promotion and it was fun. I played regular tables and zoom too and felt pretty
      nostalgic. Unfortunately i did not make any money (can't win at showdowns) but
      i am now considering moving some of my action over to PS and only play
      at the best hours on ipoker. Not sure yet, will test this a bit in December and see
      how it goes.
      I also did a bit less studying then usual and since my table hours are not better either
      I seem to leak work hours somewhere. I did get a haircut though.

      other – I decided to buy a car. Although I am not completely sure how long I will stay here
      this looks like the best solution (as to rent or walk). The idea is that the car market is good
      enough to be able to easily resell it when i leave.
      I will check out a car on Saturday,
      a 2004 Subaru Forester. As I am not a car expert in any way so I actually had to look up
      what a Forester, lol, is but it looks like it would be a nice car for me. Will see.
      another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
      12-19-2014 , 03:43 PM
      We want giraffs and hands.

      Wonder if I'll run into you on PS
      another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
      12-19-2014 , 11:11 PM
      Yeah we already did today Just a few hands though as i was taking a break soon after you sat.

      Graph will come on Sunday but i lack hands to post as they come from study sessions and they are rare these days.(at least hand reviews) Should tighten up my daily schedule but...

      Tilted pretty hard today. After the usual daily struggle where i was down maybe two buyins, i lost 3 more in quick succession to a guy who played 100% VP$IP, but always had the nuts vs me. Then gave away another one to a very passive player with a non nut full. Here i could have saved 60bb on the river had i thought for a second. Finally i misplaced somehow the pen i was taking notes with and i really felt like my head is about to explode.
      I smacked my lucky hat in the corner For a second I considered sitting down and not getting up until I win back everything, but then i realized that winning 4 buyins in a session these days is just as likely as me climbing the Mount Everest.
      So I managed to quit without further losses.

      Will play some tomorrow but i just might go to the beach on sunday instead of the grind.
      another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
      12-21-2014 , 10:23 PM
      Week 11

      Done another and down again. Mostly because my blue line flatted and died. It almost hit zero but the last session of the week saved it. Managed to pull a week with no winning days.
      At least there are other things to keep me busy so I am still not that worry, and even if i was, there is not much else to do besides what i do now.

      24 hours, 5,4k hands (2,8k ipoker, 2,6k PS) -8,3 bi



      Been to the beach again and had some nice waves, probably the best ones this not so perfect spot can offer. Will start the week with review and studying so i will probably post some hands.
      another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
      12-23-2014 , 01:19 PM
      HANDS

      Forced myself to do some hand reviews today, it was really hard. I am low on motivation and more into the grind, i think i have the recover-the-losses-tilt bug. Not good.
      Oh and the deal on the Forester fell through, the seller is not selling. Made me downcast a bit, i already saw myself driving it. I actually did test drive it on Saturday and while it was one of the dirtiest cars i have seen, i though it was a good deal.


      Hand 1

        Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
        Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #33555221

        BTN: $45.96 (183.8 bb)
        SB: $41.72 (166.9 bb)
        BB: $25 (100 bb)
        UTG: $39.59 (158.4 bb)
        MP: $23.64 (94.6 bb)
        Hero (CO): $37.98 (151.9 bb)

        Preflop: Hero is CO with 6 4 7 8
        UTG folds, MP raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2.50, BTN calls $2.50, 2 folds, MP calls $1.75

        Flop: ($7.85) 6 5 7 (3 players)
        MP checks, Hero checks, BTN bets $7.52, MP folds, Hero calls $7.52

        Turn: ($22.89) A (2 players)
        Hero checks, BTN bets $16.75, Hero raises to $27.96, BTN calls $11.21

        River: ($78.81) T (2 players)

        Spoiler:
        Results: $78.81 pot ($2 rake)
        Final Board: 6 5 7 A T
        BTN showed 5 8 9 6 and won $76.81 ($38.83 net)
        Hero showed 6 4 7 8 and lost (-$37.98 net)



        Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.


        This plo25 zoom. I think pf is standard, on flop i wanted to play the oh-i have AA -and missed the flop. Villain is fairly passive post (38/23/0 - agg:1,6) but he could bet here fairly wide: 2pair, sets, straights. He pots it but that is not necessarily mean that he has the nuts, rather the opposite in my experience.
        Here i made the mistake of calling, i think I overweighted the EV of keeping his air and weak hands in and cut losses vs the nuts.
        If i shove he would probably calls very wide def. all straights and sets, but some villains would call with 2pair and pair+oesd too vs my 'AA'.
        If he only calls with sets+straights we still have a miniscule +EV.

        On turn the A hits, and when he bets he does not have the sets anymore. He probably never bet sets with diamonds either. So when he pots I am up against a straight here: 34,48,89. I was of course hoping for 34 but thinking about it more (34 and 48) << 89 given that he was not that loose but passive/cautious rather then aggressive pre and post flop. Of course my sample on him is less than 50 hands and probably it was even smaller when we played this hand but still.

        So all in all mistake on flop, and big mistake on turn by the looks of it.


        Hand 2

        First this looked like a clear tilt-stack-off on flop (well it still is i guess) but it turns out that calling villain (40/15/0 agg:1,8) shove is slightly +EV.
        I gave him 2pair, sets, pair+OESD, 789 and T plus 3 non A broadway cards.

          Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
          Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #33555371

          BTN: $24.25 (97 bb)
          Hero (SB): $30.23 (120.9 bb)
          BB: $32.21 (128.8 bb)
          UTG: $16.32 (65.3 bb)
          MP: $30.23 (120.9 bb)
          CO: $25 (100 bb)

          Preflop: Hero is SB with A 6 Q J
          UTG raises to $0.50, MP folds, CO calls $0.50, BTN calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.75, 3 folds, BTN calls $2.25

          Flop: ($6.75) 3 T 6 (2 players)
          Hero bets $4.87, BTN raises to $21.07, Hero raises to $27.48 and is all-in, BTN calls $0.43 and is all-in

          Turn: ($49.75) Q (2 players, 2 are all-in)
          River: ($49.75) 5 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

          Spoiler:
          Results: $49.75 pot ($2 rake)
          Final Board: 3 T 6 Q 5
          BTN showed 8 9 7 5 and lost (-$24.25 net)
          Hero showed A 6 Q J and won $47.75 ($23.50 net)



          Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.



          Hand 3

          Stack off vs super aggro 25/22/18 villain. Standard or is it a mistake to draw conclusions from a very high 3bet percentage? (especially that my samle is 67 hands) I am uncertain now. He was also very aggro flop so he will stick in the rest on 100% of the flops...

            Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
            Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #33555391

            Hero (BTN): $31.65 (126.6 bb)
            SB: $22.69 (90.8 bb)
            BB: $134.82 (539.3 bb)
            UTG: $9.34 (37.4 bb)
            MP: $35.23 (140.9 bb)
            CO: $103.33 (413.3 bb)

            Preflop: Hero is BTN with K A J 7
            UTG raises to $0.75, MP folds, CO calls $0.75, Hero raises to $3.30, SB raises to $11.65, 3 folds, Hero raises to $28.90, SB calls $11.04

            Flop: ($47.13) 3 8 Q (2 players)
            Turn: ($47.13) 3 (2 players)
            River: ($47.13) Q (2 players)

            Spoiler:
            Results: $47.13 pot ($2 rake)
            Final Board: 3 8 Q 3 Q
            Hero showed K A J 7 and lost (-$22.69 net)
            SB showed T 2 A A and won $45.13 ($22.44 net)



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            another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
            12-23-2014 , 01:37 PM
            Hand 1: nice analysis

            Hand 2: Errm, I bet/fold lol

            Hand 3: Not enough hands/sample size to determine if this is +EV or not yet, so at this moment bad shove. You're on the BU in position, could easily see a flop with your hand if you think he's getting out of line.
            another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
            12-23-2014 , 07:30 PM
            Hand 2: yeah i know, but it turns out we shouldnt

            Hand 3: yes call is standard and we have to odds even if we put him on AA**
            however he will have 11$ left with 25$ pot so i am sure he will shove 100%.
            I was thinking that he would have us fold more than it is right. I agree about the
            call but i will think about it a bit more.
            another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
            12-23-2014 , 09:19 PM
            Hand 3 = you need to know if he can 4bet more than just AAxx, if you don't have a large sample size or you haven't already seen him 4bet with anything other than AAxx then just treat him as an unknown until you get some reads.

            You could actually fold this hand preflop if he has nothing but AAxx.
            ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
            600,000 trials (Randomized)
            Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
            AsKhJs7h33.05% 195,7495,093
            AAxx66.95% 399,1585,093
            http://propokertools.com/simulations...AAxx&s=generic


            If you think he 4bets light, then this still isn't the best of hands to 5bet shove with apparently... unless you think he'll fold a lot
            ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
            600,000 trials (Randomized)
            Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
            AsKhJs7h49.68% 281,33133,450
            16%50.32% 285,21933,450

            Something like AKQQds would be much better
            ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
            600,000 trials (Randomized)
            Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
            AhKdQhQd59.86% 346,57725,134
            16%40.14% 228,28925,134
            another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
            12-25-2014 , 10:11 PM
            Yes, you are right.
            As you see we are almost good vs AA, but i was convinced he 3bets much wider than that. Altogether though that was a tilty ship.

            Interesting and somewhat connected hand:

              IPoker, $0.10/$0.20 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 5 Players
              Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #33618441

              CO: $12.49 (62.5 bb)
              BTN: $22.46 (112.3 bb)
              Hero (SB): $40.18 (200.9 bb)
              BB: $21.21 (106.1 bb)
              MP: $29.60 (148 bb)

              Preflop: Hero is SB with 3 K K A
              MP folds, CO raises to $0.40, BTN folds, Hero raises to $1.40, BB raises to $4.60, CO folds, Hero raises to $14.20, BB raises to $21.21 and is all-in, Hero calls $7.01

              Flop: ($42.82) 5 A J (2 players, 1 is all-in)
              Turn: ($42.82) J (2 players, 1 is all-in)
              River: ($42.82) K (2 players, 1 is all-in)

              Spoiler:
              Results: $42.82 pot ($2.14 rake)
              Final Board: 5 A J J K
              Hero mucked 3 K K A and lost (-$21.21 net)
              BB showed A 2 A Q and won $40.68 ($19.47 net)



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              BB here is a good reg (who runs like Jesus these days - hi! if you read this ) and again i was convinced that he is squeezing me with worse, especially that i had an A, but noooo. I managed to chat him up and he basically said that vs me this is always AA. (he said he only responded as he is not likely to play these games next year) So that was the interesting part that actually should have been obvious : the way other players perceive you really does matter.
              /end of Captain Obvious
              another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
              12-25-2014 , 10:57 PM
              ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
              600,000 trials (Randomized)
              Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
              AhKc3cKd56.40% 326,25924,222
              12%43.61% 249,51924,222


              Much better hand to light 4b with
              another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
              12-25-2014 , 11:24 PM
              Yeah, getting better
              I was surprised though how good AKQQ does vs 16% (in prev post) - good to know.
              another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
              12-26-2014 , 10:50 AM
              BIG DRAW SPOT

              I was wondering about this hand i played yesterday. PLO25z, both villains are extremely passive (CO 13/8/0 agg 1.0 - B 25/0/0 agg 0.3) but i have less than 25 hands on them.

              The question is how do we play turn.

              On flop i cbet 2/3 and get called by both. With no further reads and no hands on them we can give them a joint range of: all 2pair, all sets, wraps between J7 and AJ, flush draws. On turn we can bet, c/c or c/r and here is where i am uncertain a bit. Do we try to bomb them off their hands and gamble (bet,c/r) or do we play passively, as on Turn we are not favorites anymore and trust that we will get some calls when hit River?

              ********

              Wrote a long paragraph here but I just over complicated things. Vs these passive players we can c/c happily (especially 1/2 pot) and don't have to worry about getting bluffed on the river or not getting value often if we hit.

              I will leave the hand hear anyway, just in case...





                Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
                Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #33630011

                BTN: $31.02 (124.1 bb)
                SB: $45.19 (180.8 bb)
                BB: $31.37 (125.5 bb)
                Hero (UTG): $33.96 (135.8 bb)
                MP: $23.32 (93.3 bb)
                CO: $28.86 (115.4 bb)

                Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q K T K
                Hero raises to $0.85, MP folds, CO calls $0.85, BTN calls $0.85, 2 folds

                Flop: ($2.90) J 7 A (3 players)
                Hero bets $2.02, CO calls $2.02, BTN calls $2.02

                Turn: ($8.96) 3 (3 players)
                Hero checks, CO bets $4.29, BTN calls $4.29, Hero calls $4.29

                River: ($21.83) 6 (3 players)
                Hero checks, CO checks, BTN bets $20.90, 2 folds

                Spoiler:
                Results: $21.83 pot ($0.93 rake)
                Final Board: J 7 A 3 6
                BTN mucked and won $20.90 ($13.74 net)
                Hero mucked Q K T K and lost (-$7.16 net)
                CO mucked and lost (-$7.16 net)



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                another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
                12-26-2014 , 09:02 PM
                NEW YEARS RESOLUTION

                i will not look at the cashier or HEM results before the end of the day. I found myself being completely obsessed with checking the results and graphs during the sessions instead of focusing on the game. Damn.
                another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote
                12-27-2014 , 04:24 AM
                You played that last hand perfectly fine imo, betting out Flop and check/calling turn is pretty much the best way to play this hand. If you bet Turn then you have to call a big raise in a spot where you're almost never ahead.

                What's your plan if you get raised on the Flop? I'd probably get it in even so deep... Even vs AA, you got 45%

                What do you think Button is potting River with? That seems super random and I don't see what he is calling down Flop + Turn and then betting on a blank River. Obviously you can't call, but would still be interesting to give him a range.
                another SS PLO (and beyond) grind thread Quote

                      
                m