Zima you still play poker, don't you?

I do agree that currently playing poker or not has absolutely nothing to do with it. I also agree that Craggoo's comment reveals a ton of incompetence. I disagree that the way you treat your players has anything to do with it either, obviously.

I think this thread is amaaaazing gogogo OP!!

meh, not really.

playing a bit lately, but 99% of my income comes from staking.

Ur going for SN right?

craggoo, I'm interested in learning how I mistreated you. I would like to improve on my horses experiences, so please let me know .


We have 6 ATM, and more apps coming in every day or so. A few people we're in the process of potentially adding, as well

, thanks.

I definitively don't think not playing has anything to do with staking. If anything, it should be better that I'm not playing. I'm always around to talk to the players, go over hands, etc, which I wouldn't be doing if I was playing.


When you have the players you do...itd be tough for 99% of your income not to come from staking lol.

So here was the dispute with craggoo. Posted this in the negative reference thread. he's since confirmed he is not paying.

My partner and I staked Adam starting in the beginning of June. At the time, he was a loser at the HU hypers, but was a winner at a different type of HU game so we signed him on. He got coached by my partner and his game improved tremendously-he went from a huge loser to someone who could actually beat the game, thanks specifically to said partner.

During contract negotiations, we told him that we wanted him to lock him up for a longer period and not let him be free to leave due to the coaching that was added to the deal. Originally we were looking to go for 6 months, but he said it was too long and wanted to go for 3 months. We were fine with that and we signed the deal. Under no way did we force him to sign said deal.

As part of the deal, there was a buy out clause stating that for every month that he did not play under the contract, there would be a $300 buyout. He didn't last two weeks due to the following dispute:

When we originally started the stake, we started him off at the 7s with the intention of moving him up when we felt like he was ready. That was cut and dry-we weren't going to keep him at the 7s for the duration of the contract.

He played 2200 games between the first of june and the 10th. He made a comment about how he wanted to chop the money at the end of this session (roughly 4-500 games more than likely) because he was figuring that he was going to be getting moved to the 15s (we typically do profit splits on the 15th/30th). This was not the case. We told him for two weeks or so that we'd reevaluate his game 3K games, and that would be when he could bring it up. My partner was actually going to be fine looking at it after that session (the decision was all his), but I was not going to commit to anything-I do not make the decision when it comes to HU games. I don't know enough about the game, so, naturally, I will not commit to anything.

Adam flipped ****, saying that we were treating him unfairly, and that we were being greedy-that we were waiting for him to earn ourselves enough profits to move him up solely based on said profits. That was not the case.

After this, he said he found a new backer and was leaving us. He has yet to pay the $900, and is ignoring both of our skype messages while still being able to put in volume and post on 2+2. He also sent me this message the last time we talked:

[6/14/2012 2:55:13 AM] Adam Cragg: just an fyi... if you make any negative comments about me I will be making a post in the negative feedback staking thread in addition to a negative feedback post in your PGC thread
[6/14/2012 2:59:21 AM] Tyler Hess: and what exactly would you say? that we didnt move you up as quickly as you wanted?
[6/14/2012 2:59:58 AM] Adam Cragg: post and find out
[6/14/2012 3:00:49 AM] Tyler Hess: lol
[6/14/2012 3:01:00 AM] Adam Cragg: its your decision
[6/14/2012 3:01:56 AM] Tyler Hess: lol

Needless to say, he refuses to pay the $900 and is ignoring us.

he posted this in a staking thread:



I did a quick search to see if my question was answered but It doesn't appear so. I'm using some #'s to illustrate my point. I have played 3000 hu hypers. I was guaranteed at the beginning of the stake to be able to move up quickly. I will just say that I have played the 3000 hypers much faster than probably 90%+ of people would have (I played it in just under 2 weeks... but it would have been 1 week if i didnt lose 3 days to video games and didnt have to start out 2 tabling). In that time frame, I'm up 70 buy-ins. Is it super greedy of the backer to expect me to freeroll him all the way up the levels. Example: if I end today's session with 80 buy-ins or more in profit in total and hes giving me 60 buy-ins to grind the next level, is it super greedy of him to not move me up until i've profited 120 buy-ins at the first level? I'm currently at +65 buy-ins so ending it at +80 buy-ins profit from the games isn't too unrealistic to hope for. If anyone needs any clarification on anything lemme know.

Edit: To clarify, I'm asking if its fair for me to have to freeroll the backer up the levels. I thought the idea of a stake is you win over a reasonable sample at one limit then get a larger roll to play at higher games. If the backer is going to back you for $1k at the next limit you shouldn't have to win $1k at the first limit before he will move you up. That seems super greedy and super unreasonable to me.


Also to note is he did not play 3K games under the stake lol.

I don't know where this misconception of thess as the bad guy and me as the good guy comes from, so I want to put this to rest right here so that no one else thinks this is the case.

Thess and I agree on every move we have made so far with this stable. Everything either one of us says should be considered to come from both of us.

I am really lucky to be working with thess, he puts a ton of time and effort into the stable and our players, and is really passionate about what we are doing. On top of that he is good hearted and just an all around great guy.

You have no business trolling in this thread, scum.

Oh good you learned how to use the search button. Your parents must be so proud.

Congratulations you two. You're the first 2 to make it onto my ignore list after being a member for almost 6 years.

This message is hidden because thess123 is on your ignore list.

This message is hidden because ibavly is on your ignore list.

Good luck trying to convince people I'm a scumbag when the only thing I'm not doing is paying a rediculous "quitting early" fee.

Did you sign the contract? If it was ridiculous why did you sign the contract? Unfortunately if you can't give a better reason for your actions then "I want to move up right now" then you are indeed acting scummy and shouldn't be able to be staked. Take a second and think logically about your actions before you completely ruin your reputation.

Craggoo, would you like to go to arbitration and have a respected member of the community look at the situation?

If you feel you are right, then you should jump at this opportunity to clear your name


And, about you moving up and your backers "free rolling" you (in terms of moving up limits)...well, i dont think you understand what free rolling means. Your backers have every right to keep you at whatever limit they see fit for however long. If you signed a contract saying you give them these rights, then you really have no leg to stand on. Everyone always wants to move up faster than they should. It's actually the most common things backers always deal with.


Who is your current backer. does he know about this situation?

I'm guessing it's because of this thread so tyler is sort of the face of the stable. also some of these micro guys clearly don't understand what being backed fully entails.

Not backed. You can ask Tyler why he thinks its fair to charge me $300 a month to quit early while another player that plays the EXACT same games and EXACT same stakes had a $200 per month charge instead.

Also, about the moving up part Zima. I made it perfectly clear to them that I had to be at 30s by the end of the month assuming the volume / stats are there. My roommate is leaving by the end of the month so I need to know by the end of the month if I can go back to living on my own or if I need to start looking for another roommate. After finding this out, I was promised to be moved up quickly as long as my stats were decent at each level. Its pretty obvious to me at this point that their initial promise was a bold-faced lie.

Diff people have different deals. Again we are back to why did you sign the contract if you thought it was unfair to you. You are still very much in the wrong. Sounds like you were 800 games away from getting your wish of moving up if you kept playing well.

That's where you're wrong. They would not guarantee me anything at 3k games. It was a "maybe we will, maybe we won't". I wouldn't call that my "wish of moving up".