I know,its soul destroying when u go thru a run like this. Thing is its bound to affect your play - its very hard to value bet well when u feel like you're always running into the top of their range. You'll check back to get to showdown so many times when you could have value bet,and all that missed value contributes massively to your losing sessions. I'd say the only thing to do is drop stakes until the deck warms up and u get some confidence back

Hi all and welcome back……hopefully everyone else has been having withdrawals as well.

Been an interesting few weeks for me in the absence of 2+2. My BR certainly hasn’t improved (in fact it has deteriorated) and I will admit I have been playing seriously under rolled. However, in light of all that, I am quite comfortable with how things have been going. Essentially two bad sessions at 25NL have negated quite a few solid winning sessions. Lost $90 and $80 on 2 separate occasions and overall for May I am down about $120 after booking a $45 profit for April at 5NL (approx. numbers as I’m posting from work). Think my Stars BR is currently around $75.

Obviously I’m not persisting with 25NL but the experience has been worthwhile. My play has been solid at both 16NL and 25NL and aside from the 2 terrible sessions I have been booking consistent wins. For the most part, I have actually been playing 16NL and while I’m not sure of the numbers, I am in front at the level and find myself really comfortable there. The reason for changing up and trying some higher levels was simply because I was running so bad at 5NL. Seems crazy but my game seems much more suited to 16NL. It wasn’t a case of move up to chase the 5NL losses either – it was just a change of scenery. I have generally played really well and I think 16NL is a great level for me. Still far more passive than 25NL where you don’t get put under nearly as much pressure and so so many fish who will just stack off with the most random crap. Did I mention how many fish are at 16NL? It’s unbelievable.

My biggest problem has been playing tired. I was up $25 the other day and came back for a late session when tired and dropped about $45 in quick time. The next day I was up a buy in at 16NL and did the same thing…..been asleep on the couch and instead of getting up and going to bed I booted up a session. No 16NL tables free so jumped into some 25NL (where I had been up until that point in time). In the space of about 100 hands I have dropped about $95 when KK < AA, KQ < AK on QJT9 board and AK and QQ lost me quite a bit when they kept hitting resistance on ugly boards.

Overall – I haven’t tilted at all (aside from what you might call playing tired tilt or playing under rolled tilt). These are mistakes no doubt and I need to improve but mostly my losses have come from simply hitting the top of a villains range or simply being coolered. I have maintained composure the whole time and really played well.

For now I am going to play 10NL until I get the roll heading upwards again and then get back to 16NL as soon as possible. $75 isn’t a lot but I also have some $ on another site which I will explain soon. I have no interest in 5NL at the moment. I feel like I’ve completely lost my game for it now because even after booking wins at 16NL I go back down and can’t find a rhythm there. I feel my game has actually improved over the past few weeks and I’m c-betting better, folding better and playing calm better. Yeah, I’m down but I know why and I know how to deal with it.

Regarding my BR, I currently have another $115 on another site which I will soon transfer when the bonus period expires at the end of this week. I think I have time to clear one more $5 bonus increment. It’s a pity I have been playing this site in only small 20 minute sessions in browser in my work lunch breaks as the $115 is pure profit but isn’t included in my PT3 graph. However, the site has sent me a block of hand histories until mid April and once I have finished here next week I will request the remaining period and upload it all into PT3. That will have the graphs looking prettier.

Basically I had no $ but some player points left on Poker Room when they re-opened their doors recently. I had enough points to buy 4 tickets to $0.55 DoN SNGs (6 max). I cashed in 3 of them and was off and running with $3 in my account. I took that to a 4NL 6 max table and quickly had it about to about $12 and from that time have been playing short sessions of 10NL 6 max in my lunch breaks at work. Along with clearing about $15 in bonuses I now have this account at $115 after starting out with nothing. Quite a nice little bonus.

Well, what a tl;dr ramble that was. Fairly ad-hoc and incoherent but it was simply a matter of putting down any and all thoughts as they came to my head. It has been about 3 weeks after all and there was some catching up to do.

Cliffs:-

• Playing well but under rolled, but need to move down because I really am under rolled.
• Enjoyed the experience as I sampled the differences between all the levels between 5NL and 25NL and realise my game is actually more suited to those higher levels, however at the moment my BR is not.
• Good to be back on 2+2.
• Haven’t been tilting.

Final thoughts – now the grind begins. Fluffing around has been great and the BR and profit/loss hasn’t been my biggest concern. I’ve been more interested in gaining some insights into the different levels and my own game and trying to get involved a bit more without tilting. All in all I would say the past few weeks have been beneficial and ignoring the bottom line, a success. However, now knowledge and mindset needs to translate into progression. Starting tonight I am attacking 10NL only and will book a profit by the end of May. Bookmark it! The graph is about to take off.

I know no one wants to read bad beats stories but it's my thread and my outlet. Posting here helps me step away from the table for a few minutes to cool the heels as I must admit I went on my first case of chat box tilt in quite some time, which I'm not proud of.

So, why do the donks always seem to get lucky when I have them crushed? Can take thousands of hands sometimes to post a buy in win and yet these monkeys can rip 2 off you in 2 hands. So frustrating. The guy is playing 80/28 and just doesn't fold so I simply go for the all in option both times when I'm certain I have the best of it.

Hand 1: Couldn't have him more crushed. Of course I can't hold up.

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $15.38
SB: $11.89
BB: $8.08
Hero (UTG): $10.25

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has A K

Hero raises to $0.35, fold, fold, BB raises to $0.70, Hero raises to $10.25 and is all-in, BB calls $7.38 and is all-in

Flop: ($16.21, 2 players) T T 8

Turn: ($16.21, 2 players) Q

River: ($16.21, 2 players) K

BB shows K T (Full House, Tens full of Kings) (Pre 26%, Flop 98%, Turn 91%)
Hero shows A K (Two Pair, Kings and Tens) (Pre 74%, Flop 2%, Turn 9%)
BB wins $15.48



Hand 2: So instead of having his entire stack, he doubles through me and manages to take another stack off me very next hand. Injustice. Infuriating.


PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

CO: $15.38
BTN: $11.84
SB: $15.48
BB: $10.00
Hero (UTG): $10.00

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has Q Q

Hero raises to $0.40, fold, BTN calls $0.40, SB calls $0.35, fold

Flop: ($1.30, 3 players) 5 4 9
SB bets $0.30, Hero raises to $9.60 and is all-in, fold, SB calls $9.30

Turn: ($20.50, 2 players) K

River: ($20.50, 2 players) A

SB shows 5 7 (Flush, King High) (Pre 20%, Flop 46%, Turn 84%)
Hero shows Q Q (One Pair, Queens) (Pre 80%, Flop 54%, Turn 16%)
SB wins $19.58





I actually don't mind posting a loss if I feel I've played poorly, been outplayed or simply ran into some better hands, but these are the ones that send me off. Seems absolutely criminal that you lose a stack against a moron all in pre-flop with KT v your AK only to follow up with him calling oop with 57 and getting it all in on a draw.

Yeah, yeah....I made Sklansky bucks. Long term, long term. We want to play with these guys. Just so damn frustrating.

Meanwhile, as you sit out, you see his tripled stack dwindle back to nothing as everyone else takes my money off him as all their hands hold up against his garbage...............

Just so gross. He ends up losing the entire triple stack he accumulated and packs up and heads to another table. I jump on the waiting list and watch while I wait for a seat.

Loses another 3 stacks in no time.

3 bets 10 3 Pre flop and barrells all the way on a 97983 board.

All in pre flop with QT v AK.

3 bets Q 6 Pre flop and barrells all the way on K6499 board.

Everyone at the table with massive stacks and have no interest in giving up their seat. Seems I'm the only bloke who can't hold up gainst him.

How is it possible to lose every big pot of the day, even when I am favourite most of the time when the money goes in? All day. Hours without winning even a medium pot and soon as a big one develops and I'm in front - bam - there's your miracle.

Yeah, same here mate. Since starting Zoom I’ve managed to get all the money in with a flush 5 times now. In four of them, I lost to a boat, on the 5th, I lost to a higher flush. But I’ve lost count of the times my sets have lost to a flush. Oh, and the only time I flopped the nut straight and got it in on the flop, he also hit his boat on the river. Funny how I never boat up there …

Here’s one from Zoom this morning (not converted properly). Villain was standard tag 19/16 ish.

Dealt to Hero (cutoff) A 8

2 folds
Hero raises to .15
2 folds
BB calls .10

Flop (.32) J 104

BB checks
Hero bets .20
BB calls .20

Turn (.72) 6

BB checks
Hero bets .45
BB calls .45

River ($1.62) J

BB bets $4.20 all in
Hero calls $4.20 all in

BB shows 1010

Seriously, how the FFFF can I put this villain on a full house here when he doesn’t 3bet pre, which he’d most likely do with JJ/1010, and then doesn’t raise this flop or turn with a set on such a wet board?! And why do I only hit my FFFF draw when it gets me stacked, never when it actually gives me the best FFFF hand? Why couldn’t it have been any other but that one, so I could stack him? And why does he never have a worse flush here? I literally have to fold this every single time because they NEVER have worse. And then you see other people happily getting it all in with TPTK and winning regularly, like poker is just that easy … drives me absolutely FFFF nuts.

I think we’d both be better off taking up knitting mate.

I actually don't know what to do anymore. I'm seriously questioning myself.

I can't win any pot that develops beyond, bet/call,,,c-bet/fold....

If it goes beyond that I'm losing it.

Just now the table station calls me 3 hands in a row. First hand I bet 88, he calls. Random flop where he sticks and then gets aggro. Next hand I have 66 same scenario. Next hand I get AJ and flop J72 and he is sticking around again........of course his 77 flops a set.

Obviously experienced those hands I posted this morning above.

Just now call bet with 55. Flop T52. Check to PRF hoping for a c/r and he checks behind. Turn 9 to hit his 99. Thanks for coming.

BB with A8 - flop A8T - SB has limped in with TT.

AK on board of KxxAx v AA.

78dd on flop of J69ddd. Flopped flush with open end straight flush draw. Still can't win as the limper with JJ gets it all in on the flop and fills up on the river.

AA all in pre v QQ gets the standard Q on the flop.

3b an utg open with ATdd from CO and get cold called by SB who has Q3 and the board runs T33....My flush making card on the river doesn't help with it's the Qd.

Try a 3 barrell bluff after isolating a limper with Qc9c on AcKcXxTx board... A8o calls all the way.


Must be $70-$80 worth of losses there. Won 2 pots > $4.00 myself.


I think maybe I'm not very good. I'm not sure. I seem to get it in good fairly often but don't seem to take down nearly enough big pots myself in comparison with the big pot losses.

This is the thing. u start to question everything about your game.

what really gets me is that there should be a corresponding upside, where you run like god and win 10 BI in half an hour. and in fact, if your starting range is better than Mr Random Luckbox Fish, the upside should be much bigger than the downside. when you both flop tp, yours should generally be better. likewise when you hit 2p, or a set, or a flush, because your cards are generally stronger to start with. but somehow that doesn't actually happen.

All that happens is you seem to run time after time into the sort of disgusting set ups you describe above. it doesn't matter how good a player you are, it's pretty much impossible to fold the nut flush 3 times in a row when the river pairs and you get shoved on, and of course you get shown the boat when u call.

i guess the only answer for us is to have someone outside look at us play, whether it's a coach or someone sweating or whatever.

clearly it can't be all runbad, there must be some pretty big leaks we have in there as well. but equally, it's pretty much impossible when you can't actually win any big pots with your biggest hands, never mind your top pair type hands.

it's the tptk hands that really get me. i wonder if someone can suggest a filter to run in HEM to see how many times i flop tptk, and what my average win/loss is in these situations compared to other people. I just find it genuinely impossible to get anyone to pay me off with tptk - either they have nothing and i win a tiny pot, or they hit bigger (usually by 3 outering their kicker). sit there and watch any average table, and you'll see people winning big pots with tptk all the time. i just don't understand how i never seem to be able to get any value from them.

Seems pretty pointless to say chin up and just grind through it mate, as that probably won't make u feel any better. At least you can take consolation in the fact i'm going through the same sh*t!

Well I just got crushed yesterday. My mindset was a mess by the end of the day to the point I wasn't confident I'd hold up in any situation and it seems whenever you think like this it is self perpetuating. Whether that's because subconsciously you start playing differently than you otherwise would I'm not sure.

What I do know after looking at PT3 is that my 4 biggest losing sessions since starting this challenge have also been my 4 longest. Simple answer to this problem - when I feel it's not my day and I'm in a 'why me' mindset, I may as well log off and save the $.


Need to get back to making some more informative posts or analytical posts - too much bleating lately.

As Gooner says, there has definitely got be some major leaks I need to fix, and I really want to.

Tonight I hit the tables again determined to be positive regardless of the results and hopeful of identifying real trouble spots that I can bring to you guys for some advice..............

Hey dude, chin up, etc!

I think you need to start posting more actual hand histories. For example in this hand:

I'm not stacking off on that flop with TPTK to the villain you described. If he's a passive station whose default line is to call, then once he raises on that board then you should be concerned.

I know it sucks when you get stacked by a donk, but sometimes it's avoidable. You need to stay in emotional control. Randomness is clumpy, so sometimes the station is going to be make a better hand than you on the flop three times in a row. But as long as you make the correct decisions in the long run then you'll win.

What's your all-in EV line look like compared to your winnings?

Stay positive!

G'day mate, thanks for popping in. I'm staying reasonably positive. Certainly still get frustrated at times but I think it reads worse here than it actually is when I'm at the table. An outlet and all that......

I'll post my stats, graphs and the whole lot at the end of the month. I just want to play for a bit without worrying about the numbers. It can become an issue of watching the graph/profit etc that I'm trying to avoid.


So, with that, and speaking of an outlet....

How.The.Fk.Can.They.Get.Rewarded.For.This. .....I mean seriously, what does he think I have? It isn't even like he is getting it in with a small-medium PP or AQ-AT that he thinks is worth a call cos "I must be bluffing". I mean I 4b him and then 6b shoved over his retarded 5B and he still finds a call. Gave him every reason to fold. Told him loud and clear precisely what I was holding.

Running into better hands is one thing but I'm still struggling not to lose it at these donks. Just undoes a period of working hard to make some $ and you lose more than 100BB in one hand. Aaaarrrrggghhhh. The sad part is that the flop gives him precisely nothing either, then you see the turn card peel off and you just think here we go again, I know what's coming. Yep, Bam.

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $8.74
SB: $13.23
BB: $7.62
UTG: $10.91
Hero (MP): $6.16
CO: $5.16

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has A A

fold, Hero raises to $0.20, fold, fold, SB raises to $0.35, fold, Hero raises to $1.15, SB raises to $1.95, Hero raises to $6.16 and is all-in, SB calls $4.21

Flop: ($12.37, 2 players) 9 K 6

Turn: ($12.37, 2 players) 7

River: ($12.37, 2 players) T

SB shows Q 8 (Straight, Ten High) (Pre 18%, Flop 10%, Turn 18%)
Hero shows A A (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 82%, Flop 90%, Turn 82%, RIVER = FARKEN 0.00000000%)
SB wins $11.86


The positive. Well, it's Zoom, so I couldn't rage at him as the table instantly changes. Likewise, I have taken time out to share this fascinating story (not) with you so that I can cool off......

yeah it looks like a lot of bad variance has come your way lately. it happens to us all; just some more than others. Whenever I get a bad beat and it affects my play and I feel that, I always take at least a 10 min break, just splash some water on the face, sit back in, or rather even just call it a day sometimes.

setting a stop-loss has helped me out. especially once a reach the peak profit of a session, ocassionally i will just move my stop-loss up into some positive realm where I am happy stopping if it is clear I have begun to bleed cash

Hey z3ppelin. Yeah a bit of a rough patch but I'm just a whinger. Need to work on that as much as my poker.

Save $ not bleeding when angry and my bankroll would look infinitely better.

That's a pretty awful call with Q8s!

Well, Zoom has come back to bite me on the arse.

Played my first session in ages a few nights ago and picked up 7 BIs at 5NL 6max. Since then have dropped that and about another 7. I read how everyone crushes Zoom and it's easy money and yet time after time when I try I start well and then just get crushed soon after.

I had AA/KK about 12 times each in one session and they got folded to all but 2 times. If I bet 55, I get 3 bet. Can they see my cards? If I bet AK, the flop comes A39 and hits 99. Probably played a few hands poorly but for the most part it is just making good hands against better hands and not getting paid when I have a big one.

Really struggling to find my game at the moment. Playing between 5NL Zoom, 10NL and 16NL (all 6 max) and run well for periods at all and then inevitably get crushed soon after. Struggling to sustain a win rate at any level for any period of time. Was hoping to keep my Poker Room funds in that account for a bit longer so I could still play some Poker on my lunch break at work. I didn't want have to re-deposit into Stars but unless I turn it around really soon on Stars I'll have to re-deposit or transfer my Poker Room funds.