Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Poker Goals & Challenges Post your threads logging your travels up the poker ladder as you achieve your poker goals and dreams. "Challenges" does NOT mean prop bets, wagers, etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-12-2017, 04:36 AM   #1026
Brokenstars
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Brokenstars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Check out my PGC!!!
Posts: 9,525
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

I think people improve faster with fewer hands and higher quality (more thinking/paying attention).
Brokenstars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2017, 05:10 AM   #1027
cheltNAM
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: cheltenham
Posts: 2,182
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

All totally valid points however knowing max outside of poker (kinda) it's more about the competition than the money and he gets that competition at zoom. Starting reg tables can also be undesirable when you work full time and you have a couple hours a day to play.

From a pure EV point of view agree totally, in this situation zoom is probably fine.
cheltNAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2017, 10:37 PM   #1028
max85
old hand
 
max85's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,699
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

thanks for the kind comments guys, appreciate you taking the time to make me feel all warm inside hahahah but srs ty very much

In regards to zoom vs reg, for sure reg is going to be easier, however my time constraints and cfp arrangements restrict my activities somewhat. Frankly, if i cant beat zoom games then i wont bother with anything else. Simply because if i can beat zoom, i can beat anything (within reason). I play poker because i love it, the challenge is significant and if i can eventually make $20k+ pa from a serious hobby then its an untaxed bonus for me and some pocket money for extra holidays. The dream is to live off it, but realistically, thats a dream. The feeling of "winning" and beating tough competition outweighs the monetary value for me. You never know what the future will hold though.

Back at 50z and I must say the game is much softer than 100z. EV wise im doing well at around 3-4bb (lol sample) so once BR is back at better level ill move back to 100z. Im finding studying more and learning while making mistakes at a cheaper loss rate can certainly be beneficial.

Thanks for following
max85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2017, 10:49 PM   #1029
reloadonsashagray
journeyman
 
reloadonsashagray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 244
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

You're moving down from 100z to 50z with almost 60bi for 100z? from what I have heard here it's not about the $ it's about the competition, If this was the case why would you be dropping down if $ is not a problem and the competition would be less?. Your coach's are current crushers aren't they? are they not confident with you at 100z? or is it your decision to move down, something don't seem right here probably get bitched at for writing this but w/e.
reloadonsashagray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2017, 01:57 AM   #1030
Don Melchor
Pooh-Bah
 
Don Melchor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The way of the warrior
Posts: 5,259
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

Dont move down my man!!! Maybe moving up will work better for you
Don Melchor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2017, 02:23 AM   #1031
Canuckage
veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,293
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

I think it is great that OP is willing to move down stakes. It is good to move down and get some confidence back. During big downswings, some people may play a bit too passive because they don't want to lose more or too aggressive because they take a higher variance route to dig out of downswing. It is good to reset and move back up when the mindset is correct. GL OP!.
Canuckage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2017, 03:28 AM   #1032
reloadonsashagray
journeyman
 
reloadonsashagray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 244
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuckage View Post
I think it is great that OP is willing to move down stakes. It is good to move down and get some confidence back. During big downswings, some people may play a bit too passive because they don't want to lose more or too aggressive because they take a higher variance route to dig out of downswing. It is good to reset and move back up when the mindset is correct. GL OP!.
Yea this is all pretty common knowledge...kind of wanted OP to answer it though, Pretty sure it's been made clear it's not about the $ and more so the competition. He said it himself how soft 50z is compared to 100z so from a competitive stand point it makes no sense for him to be there and pretty sure he's already beat 50z over a decent sample if you scroll back some pages, He should be confident if he's getting coached by people who are extremely relevant in today's games which is a rare thing. If he wanted to reset and play again when his mindset is better wouldn't it be better to take a break then go back to 100z?, last time i checked the thread was called ''6 max Moving On Up'' not 6 max Moving Back Down.
reloadonsashagray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2017, 04:58 AM   #1033
max85
old hand
 
max85's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,699
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

ok let me clarify

i treat poker seriously and approach bankroll management like a pro player, cautiously.

i do technically have enough to play 100 however with my recent ds, blow to confidence and lack or understanding of the game plus too many mistakes losses can add up fast. i don't want to reload because of a reckless approach.
max85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2017, 05:20 AM   #1034
Silentb0b
journeyman
 
Silentb0b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: 01110111 01100101 01100010
Posts: 273
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

Good luck on fattening the purse at 50z, in!
Silentb0b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2017, 10:38 AM   #1035
trying2hard
centurion
 
trying2hard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 153
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

Do you have an old big sample graph from 50z? Sorry if it's posted somewhere in the thread.

Think this is a very good choice. Confidence is extremely vital, not only in poker. GLGL!
trying2hard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 03:32 AM   #1036
max85
old hand
 
max85's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,699
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

thanks for support guys appreciate it

Here is my monthly graph so far, in BB.



@trying2hard - my 50z sample is now 255k hands at 2.1evbb....
max85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 03:41 AM   #1037
tehgrizzly
journeyman
 
tehgrizzly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: PS
Posts: 206
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

What's the hourly at 50z 4tabling with 4bb/100 after rb? Like $25 or smth. like that?
tehgrizzly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 04:25 AM   #1038
meale
Pooh-Bah
 
meale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 5,865
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by tehgrizzly View Post
What's the hourly at 50z 4tabling with 4bb/100 after rb? Like $25 or smth. like that?
4*50c = $2 per 100 hands, $20 per 1k hands * maybe .85 = $17/hr
meale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 04:52 AM   #1039
max85
old hand
 
max85's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,699
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

hm2 tells me $8.27ph + whatever i made in rb
max85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 08:54 PM   #1040
tehgrizzly
journeyman
 
tehgrizzly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: PS
Posts: 206
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

When it comes to lower winrate like 3-4 bb/100 (although there are kinda big difference in terms of variance between 3bb/100 and 4bb/100) it's far more important to not punt stacks. One stupid bluff can cost you 2-3 hours of breakeven stretch. Just don't let bad thoughts overtake you and you will make it!
tehgrizzly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2017, 12:25 AM   #1041
LuxPoker17
journeyman
 
LuxPoker17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 214
maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by tehgrizzly View Post
When it comes to lower winrate like 3-4 bb/100 (although there are kinda big difference in terms of variance between 3bb/100 and 4bb/100) it's far more important to not punt stacks. One stupid bluff can cost you 2-3 hours of breakeven stretch. Just don't let bad thoughts overtake you and you will make it!


3-4bb is a low winrate in Zoom games? From my experience a lot of regulars would be very happy to have 3bb
Obv there are also some sickos. But that's probably like 1% of the players.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
LuxPoker17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2017, 12:35 AM   #1042
Kiljusieppo
journeyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 307
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by tehgrizzly View Post
When it comes to lower winrate like 3-4 bb/100 (although there are kinda big difference in terms of variance between 3bb/100 and 4bb/100) it's far more important to not punt stacks. One stupid bluff can cost you 2-3 hours of breakeven stretch. Just don't let bad thoughts overtake you and you will make it!
Its a bit difficult to determine whats stupid bluff and whats a good bluff while playing sometimes. I dont think hugely nitting it up at nl100 and above improves winrate.

Working on what are good spots to bluff, what bad, which spots to call and which not just the usual work to improve is good.
Kiljusieppo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2017, 12:41 AM   #1043
Princess Elsa
journeyman
 
Princess Elsa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Arendelle
Posts: 280
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxPoker17 View Post
3-4bb is a low winrate in Zoom games? From my experience a lot of regulars would be very happy to have 3bb
Obv there are also some sickos. But that's probably like 1% of the players.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah, I don't get it either when people say that 3bb/100 in Zoom is mediocre lol. All the regs are breaking-even or slightly losing. Maybe like 5% are winners pre rb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiljusieppo View Post
Its a bit difficult to determine whats stupid bluff and whats a good bluff while playing sometimes. I dont think hugely nitting it up at nl100 and above improves winrate.

Working on what are good spots to bluff, what bad, which spots to call and which not just the usual work to improve is good.
It's only a bad bluff if we ever get looked up lol. But yeah, sometimes just reminding yourself to play "solid" can make a difference.

Last edited by Princess Elsa; 03-21-2017 at 12:47 AM.
Princess Elsa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2017, 12:45 AM   #1044
Don Melchor
Pooh-Bah
 
Don Melchor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The way of the warrior
Posts: 5,259
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

Where do you get 5%!?
Don Melchor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2017, 01:56 AM   #1045
Kiljusieppo
journeyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 307
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Elsa View Post
Yeah, I don't get it either when people say that 3bb/100 in Zoom is mediocre lol. All the regs are breaking-even or slightly losing. Maybe like 5% are winners pre rb.



It's only a bad bluff if we ever get looked up lol. But yeah, sometimes just reminding yourself to play "solid" can make a difference.
For me when Im firing bad bluffs or making stupid plays its mainly A) tilt B) too tired to play. For someone breaking even it can be more complex so maybe my view of not limiting ownself from bluffing and doing stuff is bit biased. While starting to win at a stake and be confident its still imo. very important to play with open mind to do whatever you feel like and going for small things (that you think are +EV!) to gain edge and better winrate.
Kiljusieppo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2017, 11:31 AM   #1046
MultiTabling
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,772
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Elsa View Post
Yeah, I don't get it either when people say that 3bb/100 in Zoom is mediocre lol. All the regs are breaking-even or slightly losing. Maybe like 5% are winners pre rb.
I've noticed that win rates get exaggerated quite a lot on 2+2. Like you say, majority of regs are either breakeven or marginal losers. 3bb/100 at 50nl+ is crushing in today's games.
MultiTabling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2017, 12:36 PM   #1047
Princess Elsa
journeyman
 
Princess Elsa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Arendelle
Posts: 280
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Melchor View Post
Where do you get 5%!?
Me and fellow poker friends once had long talk about winrates in zoom and after some debating and analysis, we got to the conclusion that about 5% of the regs at 200z and 100z win more than 1bb/100.

Most of them are in the -3bb/100 to 1bb/100 range.

Might be wrong though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiljusieppo View Post
For me when Im firing bad bluffs or making stupid plays its mainly A) tilt B) too tired to play. For someone breaking even it can be more complex so maybe my view of not limiting ownself from bluffing and doing stuff is bit biased. While starting to win at a stake and be confident its still imo. very important to play with open mind to do whatever you feel like and going for small things (that you think are +EV!) to gain edge and better winrate.
Well put. The more confident you are at a certain stake, the more equipped you are to bluff imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiTabling View Post
I've noticed that win rates get exaggerated quite a lot on 2+2. Like you say, majority of regs are either breakeven or marginal losers. 3bb/100 at 50nl+ is crushing in today's games.
I think it's because regs that play reg tables usually have a way higher wr than the regs that play zoom tables. I for one wouldn't know because I never play the reg tables, but from what I've heard, 3bb/100 at those is almost std lol.
Princess Elsa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2017, 01:08 PM   #1048
SalmoTrutta
journeyman
 
SalmoTrutta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: The River
Posts: 339
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

I'd say 2x the wr seems like a reasonable expectation between zoom and reg 100nl. But my skin is not quite thick enough for the moral standard of eastern europe so I'm afraid I would get cancer pretty quickly if interacting with the reg regs daily.

And as always, zoom should not be viewed from a bb/100 perspective imo. Instant start/stop and high h/hour skews any reasonable bb/time estimation more heavily into zoom's favour than one might think, as long as you actually can beat it. Excel is your friend when in doubt.
SalmoTrutta is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2017, 01:00 AM   #1049
max85
old hand
 
max85's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,699
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

I dont think many regs are winning more than 1bb before rb. Zoom is harder than people think, to win long term over a large sample of 250k+ hands. 50-100k samples are somewhat meaningless.

After completing a checklist and journal each day things are looking up. Im very busy with work so volume has suffered, but each time i play i am in the zone. Mentally im relaxed and prepared to play. There have been to occasions where i didnt feel like playing so I didnt. Im glad i didnt force myself.

Progress



Off to USA and vegas in 74 days. Really looking forward to it
max85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2017, 03:13 AM   #1050
bonsaiooo
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 443
Re: maxde1 - 6 max Moving On Up

wp max, nice redline

i also agree that not many reg have profit before RB in zoom.

probably 10% i guess
bonsaiooo is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online