I think people improve faster with fewer hands and higher quality (more thinking/paying attention).

All totally valid points however knowing max outside of poker (kinda) it's more about the competition than the money and he gets that competition at zoom. Starting reg tables can also be undesirable when you work full time and you have a couple hours a day to play.

From a pure EV point of view agree totally, in this situation zoom is probably fine.

thanks for the kind comments guys, appreciate you taking the time to make me feel all warm inside hahahah but srs ty very much

In regards to zoom vs reg, for sure reg is going to be easier, however my time constraints and cfp arrangements restrict my activities somewhat. Frankly, if i cant beat zoom games then i wont bother with anything else. Simply because if i can beat zoom, i can beat anything (within reason). I play poker because i love it, the challenge is significant and if i can eventually make $20k+ pa from a serious hobby then its an untaxed bonus for me and some pocket money for extra holidays. The dream is to live off it, but realistically, thats a dream. The feeling of "winning" and beating tough competition outweighs the monetary value for me. You never know what the future will hold though.

Back at 50z and I must say the game is much softer than 100z. EV wise im doing well at around 3-4bb (lol sample) so once BR is back at better level ill move back to 100z. Im finding studying more and learning while making mistakes at a cheaper loss rate can certainly be beneficial.

Thanks for following

You're moving down from 100z to 50z with almost 60bi for 100z? from what I have heard here it's not about the $ it's about the competition, If this was the case why would you be dropping down if $ is not a problem and the competition would be less?. Your coach's are current crushers aren't they? are they not confident with you at 100z? or is it your decision to move down, something don't seem right here probably get bitched at for writing this but w/e.

Dont move down my man!!! Maybe moving up will work better for you

I think it is great that OP is willing to move down stakes. It is good to move down and get some confidence back. During big downswings, some people may play a bit too passive because they don't want to lose more or too aggressive because they take a higher variance route to dig out of downswing. It is good to reset and move back up when the mindset is correct. GL OP!.

Yea this is all pretty common knowledge...kind of wanted OP to answer it though, Pretty sure it's been made clear it's not about the $ and more so the competition. He said it himself how soft 50z is compared to 100z so from a competitive stand point it makes no sense for him to be there and pretty sure he's already beat 50z over a decent sample if you scroll back some pages, He should be confident if he's getting coached by people who are extremely relevant in today's games which is a rare thing. If he wanted to reset and play again when his mindset is better wouldn't it be better to take a break then go back to 100z?, last time i checked the thread was called ''6 max Moving On Up'' not 6 max Moving Back Down.

ok let me clarify

i treat poker seriously and approach bankroll management like a pro player, cautiously.

i do technically have enough to play 100 however with my recent ds, blow to confidence and lack or understanding of the game plus too many mistakes losses can add up fast. i don't want to reload because of a reckless approach.

Good luck on fattening the purse at 50z, in!

Do you have an old big sample graph from 50z? Sorry if it's posted somewhere in the thread.

Think this is a very good choice. Confidence is extremely vital, not only in poker. GLGL!

thanks for support guys appreciate it

Here is my monthly graph so far, in BB.



@trying2hard - my 50z sample is now 255k hands at 2.1evbb....

What's the hourly at 50z 4tabling with 4bb/100 after rb? Like $25 or smth. like that?

4*50c = $2 per 100 hands, $20 per 1k hands * maybe .85 = $17/hr

hm2 tells me $8.27ph + whatever i made in rb

When it comes to lower winrate like 3-4 bb/100 (although there are kinda big difference in terms of variance between 3bb/100 and 4bb/100) it's far more important to not punt stacks. One stupid bluff can cost you 2-3 hours of breakeven stretch. Just don't let bad thoughts overtake you and you will make it!

3-4bb is a low winrate in Zoom games? From my experience a lot of regulars would be very happy to have 3bb
Obv there are also some sickos. But that's probably like 1% of the players.


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Its a bit difficult to determine whats stupid bluff and whats a good bluff while playing sometimes. I dont think hugely nitting it up at nl100 and above improves winrate.

Working on what are good spots to bluff, what bad, which spots to call and which not just the usual work to improve is good.

Yeah, I don't get it either when people say that 3bb/100 in Zoom is mediocre lol. All the regs are breaking-even or slightly losing. Maybe like 5% are winners pre rb.

It's only a bad bluff if we ever get looked up lol. But yeah, sometimes just reminding yourself to play "solid" can make a difference.

Where do you get 5%!?

For me when Im firing bad bluffs or making stupid plays its mainly A) tilt B) too tired to play. For someone breaking even it can be more complex so maybe my view of not limiting ownself from bluffing and doing stuff is bit biased. While starting to win at a stake and be confident its still imo. very important to play with open mind to do whatever you feel like and going for small things (that you think are +EV!) to gain edge and better winrate.

I've noticed that win rates get exaggerated quite a lot on 2+2. Like you say, majority of regs are either breakeven or marginal losers. 3bb/100 at 50nl+ is crushing in today's games.

Me and fellow poker friends once had long talk about winrates in zoom and after some debating and analysis, we got to the conclusion that about 5% of the regs at 200z and 100z win more than 1bb/100.

Most of them are in the -3bb/100 to 1bb/100 range.

Might be wrong though.

Well put. The more confident you are at a certain stake, the more equipped you are to bluff imo.

I think it's because regs that play reg tables usually have a way higher wr than the regs that play zoom tables. I for one wouldn't know because I never play the reg tables, but from what I've heard, 3bb/100 at those is almost std lol.

I'd say 2x the wr seems like a reasonable expectation between zoom and reg 100nl. But my skin is not quite thick enough for the moral standard of eastern europe so I'm afraid I would get cancer pretty quickly if interacting with the reg regs daily.

And as always, zoom should not be viewed from a bb/100 perspective imo. Instant start/stop and high h/hour skews any reasonable bb/time estimation more heavily into zoom's favour than one might think, as long as you actually can beat it. Excel is your friend when in doubt.

I dont think many regs are winning more than 1bb before rb. Zoom is harder than people think, to win long term over a large sample of 250k+ hands. 50-100k samples are somewhat meaningless.

After completing a checklist and journal each day things are looking up. Im very busy with work so volume has suffered, but each time i play i am in the zone. Mentally im relaxed and prepared to play. There have been to occasions where i didnt feel like playing so I didnt. Im glad i didnt force myself.

Progress



Off to USA and vegas in 74 days. Really looking forward to it

wp max, nice redline

i also agree that not many reg have profit before RB in zoom.

probably 10% i guess