Raise bigger pre, bet flop bigger

idk how many time you've been told this KK, but as drawy as that board is def raise more OTF, you bet almost 1/3 of the pot w/ an over pair, on a pretty wet flop and multiway. I think I would have done atleast $42 OTF.

Someone mentioned shove the turn, I def wouldn't do that just because you gave everyone the odds to call w/ their draws, doubt someone has the straight just because 68 seems kind of loose and probably would have raised OTF being multiway. Any J combo is doubtful. But definitely should be raising at least 3/4 of the pot here and pray that no one raises, fold if they do. You have 2nd pair and an OESD. re evaluate river and probably check/fold if someone leads out.

Well my thinking was that with a pot sized bet, I’m making all the draws fold and only getting TPTK and better, meaning two pairs and sets to call. If I had bet 42$ and gotten raised, of course I would have folded to that raise, that’s super strong. I felt like betting slightly under half pot was the sweet spot where I could get enough not-ahead hands to call me.

I originally thought the Queen was a pretty safe card for me. I would have already been behind 6x8x, so I only have to worry about QT KJ and 8J which is unlikely because I hold two jacks. Now that I think about it, it’s a pretty bad card no? You guys do have to account for that this is full ring live.

Does anyone agree that my flop sizing is correct? I mean with $20 there, I can get random Ax’s to fold, but I feel like because the flop is so wet, 9 handed I can small bet give up. I even thought about check calling, hoping an 8 comes out or the board pairing would make my life easier. but betting larger on flop might get me in more trouble since i’m OOP.

I agree that I can’t shove turn. I also don’t think I can open the turn, I do have the OESD so I might could check call to try and hit the straight on the river.

I think there's been like 8 people that told you to bet more. You're giving basically ALL draws to correctly call here, which you don't really want. On a board like this I'd be happy to take down the pot ASAP, just because there's so much out there that kills your hand. c/o could have anything from suited connectors to a suited A. Your hand is not that strong at all multiway and on a board like this.

With that said, I'd still def lead out, and hope you can get to SD cheaply. Like I said 3/4 pot bet OTT, and hopefully take the pot down. It's not only a scary board for you, but it could also be a scary board for villains. If your called, probably check fold river.

$20-$25 pre, bigger flop, shove turn.

You have 40bb and a premium pair pre-flop, and all under cards on the flop. Folding and pot control should not be on your mind, your only concern should be how you can shovel as much money into this pot as quickly as possible.

jesus KK is unreal scared money

I’m gonna try and be more perceptive to remarks this year, so I won’t say that you’re stupid for making that assumption that I’m “scared money.” However, the remark itself is stupid and incorrect. I’m not scared to put in $40 on the flop vs $20.

It’s about making the best play, and maybe during the moment I thought my sizing was best OOP. possibly one of the best response I’ve gotten is from Kounterfit:

Thanks for the actual constructive criticism. So maybe that was the best play.

But this is how I played it out:

Full ring, $3/5 $200 cap buy

KingKrab ($190): MP with JJ, open to $15
MP2 ($230): calls $15
CO ($300): calls $15
SB: folds
BB: Folds

three to the flop, pot is $45

Flop comes T97.
KingKrab: bet $20.
MP2: calls $20.
CO: calls $20.

Pot is $105.
Turn is the Queen of diamonds. Board is T97 Q

KingKrab($155): checks.
MP2 ($195): Bets $50.
CO ($265): Raises to $165.
KingKrab: folds.
MP2: Tanks, goes all in for like 20 bucks more.
CO: Calls.

Pot is $495 or so.
River comes the Ten of diamonds. T97 Q T

MP2 turns over T8 for rivered trips and a missed OESD on the flop.
CO turns over QT for rivered full house.


The raise on the turn made my decision easier to fold. I feel like at this point my single pair is behind, so I’m basically getting all my money in on a draw.

In hindsight, I think I’ll stick to an $15 or $20 open in MP. My image at this table is such that if I made it even a tiny bit larger pre in EP/MP, most all hands would fold out. in general, large EP opens in my live game get tons of “respect” and most people fold.
On the flop, I guess I should open larger as the pot is $45ish. If I had however, I don’t think either hand was folding necessarily. As you guys mentioned, it would set me up for a turn shove, but I’d literally be doing it blind as I have the least amount of information first to act.

sounds like c/o may have called if you shoved. Unreasonable thought or no?

Hey Krab. Good luck in real life and good luck with your poker adventures. Remember, being healthy and happy in life beats anything. But I'm sure I don't have to tell you that. Anyways, subbed and again good luck with everything.

Good luck KingKrab!

Most definitely. But yea, we probably shouldn’t be result oriented. It just played out that I would have lost a lot of money by playing “correctly.”

I mean, lets put ourselves in villains shoes:

As V1, at what betting level am I folding with Top pair good kicker on the flop?
As V2, at what betting level am I folding with Top pair and open ended straight draw on the flop?





Thanks guys, much appreciated




So I should be all moved in by Sunday evening. I’m not gonna lie, I’m pretty stoked about this. Now I can live somewhat of a “normal” life. One of the first things I’m gonna do is get myself a blender and some groceries. I make some dank ass fruit smoothies.

I’ll probably play a short session in a little bit.
I’m planning on playing a long session Saturday, hoping to run it up big so I can get some necessary appliances without digging into the BR too hard.

Lets GOOOOOOOOO!

am so glad for the moving in for you Krab

Since you will have an address have you considered getting a part time job to build a bit of a cushion?

I thought of this as well. how many hours are you playing per week? If you're bored when you aren't playing a 15-20 hr a week job provides you with some consistent income and gives you an opportunity to meet non poker people. regardless of what you do grats on having a place

Im a little stoned right now so forgive me if I make any mistakes.

Over the past couple of years Ive grown accustomed to a certain level of freedom that not having a standard job has given me. Voluntary employment, even part time voluntary employment will eliminate that for me. Like, if I wanted to take three weeks off to travel, I couldnt just do that so easily.
9 to 5s, having to ask for permission from dad to do anything, I have many adverse feelings about it.
Im sure its deeper rooted in me. Its a commitment thing. I need flexibility in my life or I feel locked, claustrophobic. I dont like the feeling of being owned or restricted.

In a way, im sure many poker players feel the same way that I do.

I think a lot of us have those feelings, the difference is that not many of us is willing to take it as far as you are, as being homeless and such and for that alone you get my respect.

Keep on fighting, I sincerely hope you make it both in life and in poker.

KK, I totally agree with your sentiments on freedom. In my opinion, as long as your bankroll and any other savings are enough to cover your rent and other essential living costs for a worse case scenario run-bad/downswing then I don't think you ever need a job for the money. Can see why you might for social or other reasons but not for the money - that's what poker is for!

I can imagine scenarios where you may run-bad for a short time or experience some non-poker related drain on your finances. In that scenario it might be prudent to take some temporary paid work just to run your savings back up to a healthy level as quick as possible.

The risk associated with letting your savings dip too low is that you end up under rolled for poker and then you're freedom is gone till you get some more cash. Just like looking forward and planning your bets in each hand at the table to avoid getting into trouble you got to do the same over the months with your overall finances.

I believe you can do it though King Krab - you came this far so you knows all this better than the rest of us for sure.

Spend some money on coaching imo, best investment you can make if you're gonna be serious about living off poker longterm.

Congrats on getting your own place, I know how awesome that feels!

Thanks, I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels strongly about it.

I absolutely agree with you: standard jobs hold tons of intrinsic value in social terms: not only do you meet friends and peers among the ranks, but you become more relatable. Your problems become more relatable, when someone gripes about how long and hard their day was, how early they had to get up to open up the coffeeshop, how sh**y their master is, you can relate, understand and empathize.

Money-wise, Voluntary employment can be a worthwhile endeavor, depending on your inherent abilities and lots of luck factor, being able to skillfully climb the ranks, duplicitously brown-nose, and manipulatively conquer. But lets be honest here, only like, 5% of us will make it past the fries. Most people are capped early on in their quest for upward momentum, monetarily and career-wise. Most of us would be lucky to ever reach anything close to $20/hr working a service or office job. It’s just not fu**ing fair.

The overall median personal income for all individuals over the age of 18 was $24,062 ($32,140 for those age 25 or above) in the year 2005. (wikipedia)

So if you’re reading this and you make $80,000, good on you. You’re above the median by 3x.




I think it’s about time that I listened to this advice. I’ll do a few weeks of research, and look around for a good live coaching deal. I’m not gonna dig too hard into my BR however.

I’ve been working on a side endeavor, and I’ll dump all the money I earn on that into investing on my poker growth. Lets give myself a reasonable deadline of… Late March, Mid April by the latest.

This is just wrong. You are showing median income stats for all individuals, which includes retirees, stay at home moms, and students who only work part time. $20/hr is not difficult to achieve if you put in your dues for a couple years and are not a lazy bum.

It's really not just about paying your dues. I wish the world worked that way. Putting in those hours, those dues, is one part of many that have to line up. Hard work is something that the older generations were rewarded for. For millenials, we've spawned in an economically challenging time that's set back our careers and lives by 10 years or so, minimum. Personally for me, many many years beyond that.

Used to be u graduated college at 22, saved up and bought your brand new house at 24. Today, we'd be lucky to have a home by our mid thirties.

Without a doubt we have it way harder than our parents generation i am 25 basically same generation as you i agree through no fault of our own we are paying for f*** ups of the previous generation. but still if you are talking purely financially, you are still much better off at an office job* vs playing poker where unless you move beyond 2/5 your hourly cap is somewhere around $40 maybe $45/hr and thats only if you are the 1% who reaches their full potential. Obviously there are other non financial reasons to get into poker like emotional reasons, freedom, pursuit of happiness but from a financial viewpoint there are many many other fields that are much better to get into than poker, especially in 2016.
*When i said office job i am not talking about being a ******ed brain dead receptionist but something like programming or accounting that involves having actual skills.

I think KK has made it very clear repeatedly that the mental/lifestyle/freedom aspect of it is much more important than the financial aspect, so arguing on purely financial grounds is irrelevant.