Fold both.

I doubt VPIP with ~50% of hands with no information is a winning style.

Doesn't matter to me since I am folding both.

That's crazy talk. Consider how many hands HU specialists open from the button, then imagine you have OmahaFanatical4 on your direct left.

What part of "no additional information" do you fail to understand?

Forget HU specialists. Their entire game is predicated on accurate information of their sole opponent.

Forget who is on your left: We do not have any information as to what that player's tendencies are.

I understand completely. I think you are missing the point of the hypothetical. We are not talking about one specific instance. This is a general question of which hand would you rather open with when everyone has folded to you in the CO.

Oh, this is a hypothetical question? I didn't realize.

It IS all about stack size. 100bb or less, K7o. Over 200bb, 85s. Not sure where the bb cutoff is.

If it is a table worth playing at - much much prefer K7o

(edit: ... and if the table is not worth playing at.. well, then I am not playing at it)

Inb4 "bip playing at a table makes it worth playing".. we've got a chicken/egg situation here

K7o at every stack depth (although unless you are opening on hyper whales or nits, this is way too wide.)

hot and cold equity is king

❤️

85s makes more flushes and straights.
K7o makes bigger pairs, two pairs, trips and FH's.

The analysis should be around those differences. Why should we not care so much about flushes and straights? Why should we care more about pair and two pair situations? I assume it's because pair (and two pair?) are more common. I don't have concrete answers for these questions, but I think this is the direction the analysis should go.

short of it is this: when you hit a king, you win the hand a fairly high percentage of the time. If you hit a 7, you can often navigate it successfully to showdown in a headup pot. With 85s, you really aren't flopping many straight draws, and when you flop your pairs they are very infrequently top pairs, not at all like the K-ball insta-win. I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get the point. I will concede 85s has much better barrel opportunities given its FD and (unlikely) straight draws, but at the end of the day you have 8 hi and you are going to have to make someone fold.

85s unless everyone left to act is on 20bbs

bump to read later

😂😂😂😂👏👏👏👏

I'm fond of K7o (using the hyperbolic argument of the K-ball insta-win), although I'm told 85s is favored by Snowie/etc. and probably going to GENERALLY be the correct answer assuming reasonable stack sizes/villain profiles.

But like bip! said, K7o in the right games, hit the K and maybe bet 3 streets.

I'll take 85s over K7o, it's more playable because of suited connectedness, despite it technically being a lower ranking hand. Probably not a big difference though because the most important factor in the hand is that we have position, not the SD value of our cards.

Definitely a leak of mine not to play K7o more. Last time I played that hand was close to 2 years ago at Squid Face's Venetian 2/5 table. The flop was 77x. The villain called my cbet with a small pocket pair and then he turned a boat. I may be permanently scarred.

Why is there not a phobia for fear of rejection?

Had a discussion today at work about challenging conventions. I find in poker, people are generally overly reluctant to disagree with better players. But it's OK to disagree- that's how the poker community collectively grows its skill (although now maybe it's mostly up to the computers).

Some things we know now that we didn't know decades ago include that we know we're supposed defend T2s in BB vs SB (duhhh), and that we're supposed to 5bet/GII with AQs in BTN vs CO at 100bb (like so ****ing obvious, amirite?). But that knowledge is an accumulation of many great poker minds combined with the power of computers performing game theory calculations as well as extensive database analysis. When the someone says raising is the best play on a specific board with specific stack sizes and a specific hand and unique villain dynamics, even if he's the best in the world, he's not always going to be right. It's OK to disagree!

Aesah, you like toy games and you get poker and you esp. get live poker.

I have recently changed venues, new location is 10 handed. There is a player here, he is very good. Second most winningist player I have ever seen.

However, he is insanely passive preflop. I've only booked about 60 hours with him, he hasn't 3bet, not once. He limp/calls hands like AQo or QJs in ep. He overlimped AJs otb last session after 2 mp limpers. He checks top pair in limped lots. (So example he limps the QJs flop is J27r he checks)

He plays turns and rivers very well. I don't know how to explain or give examples but I do know he seems to play them perfectly and somewhat aggressive. He does not get to showdown often.

What is his preflop/flop strategy? Does it look familiar or make any sense to you?

The games at this room are very passive preflop and like 2007 poker postflop. (No 3betting pre and stacking off with top pair post)

Good point. Jim Rohn has this quote (paraphrase) "Sincerity is not a test of truth. It is possible to be sincerely wrong." I think that's why cult leaders can have some wacky beliefs but people still agree because they sound so confident and sure of themselves. It is important to think critically in all areas of life.

his strategy only works if people don't raise preflop or are willing to call overbets on turn river, its awful for getting value from your big hands.

limping is great if theres very few preflop raising.

how did aesah change his name wtf

edit: should of taken a screenshot, his name was moan for a while for some reason