Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirrybob
Obviously either a bluff, or he has insane reads and it's a protection raise.
Not a very interesting hand imo... it's cool villain checked down the bottom of his range but other than that this is either very read based or very button-clicky play by both players.
Why do people always try so hard to exaggerate the blatancy of how a hand is played or supposed to be played. There is a mirrion different ways to play this hand and a mirrion different EV's. And all of them are at least somewhat difficult to figure out in a 20-30 second timeframe while playing other tables.
Flop is good because our hand has the EQ to play bet x/c in theory but in reality we don't know how often V will x/b turn with AQ/AT and how often he will call bet bet with those. Most people tend to shut down river after facing turnx/c but if turn blanks and we x/c and River blanks as well and we x/f 59 we don't have much reason to call any part of our river range unless we trap. I hate playing inconsistent lines and b x/c x/f in a spot where we have no idea about turn and river frequency is no good.
Obviously flopx/f is not an option. The somewhat good thing about facing bet on Flop is that people tend to overcommit with their flopbluffs in 3bet pots vs check because everybody is aware that they don't neccessarily get a lot of Flop x/f from the hands they want to fold therefor commit to double turn and then either decide that hero doesn't play x/c x/c x/f which often is the case and give up or carry through. Last part again is a problem because if we can't figure out how often Villain carries through OTR we're automatically going to make very large EV mistakes because nobody ever carries through with all of their bluffs all the time but they will always carry through with value. And you don't want to make bad rivercalls in 3bet pots. But you also don't want to make Turncalls where V continues River 80% of the times and you always x/f.
So the dilemma of the hand is that we don't really want to play b x/f # b x/c x/f # b x/c x/c # x/c x/f # x/c x/c x/c # x/c x/c x/f.
So the only line that has some benefits besides giveups is x/c x/r because 1) V will be confused. 2) V is shut down as in everybody play b/j over b/c with top of their range. So he'll isolate himself to playing b/c with a range that is forced to almost always check river (alá AQ KQ AT). 3) If V has some blank bluffs like 22 or A5bdfd he's forced to b/f.
It's just overall a very beneficial play for us. We have some foldequity. We have some equity against KQ. We get very easy riverdecisions. Especially against weaker regs. We get very easy turn decisions. And we just take away iniative and put pressure on V. Nobody wants to face turnraise with gutshot or 1pair in a 3b pot. His timebank will run. He has AQ or T8 he's gonna be confused he's gonna click call he's gonna face river check he's gonna think about jam then he realizes he has Acehi and takes check or he realizes he has T8 but then contemplates whether his valuerange jams turn and he doesn't have value OTR then gives up and checks. Has KQ doesn't want to get trapped checks river. Etc
Against stronger players this hand plays differently. I'm sure some 5k guys will simply jam KQ OTR or b/r T8 / AQ occasionally. The exploits you can play out of that are obvious.
Regardless. No idea what the EV of turnx/r is. I'm sure it's alright and much better than the other lines.
I just spewed this away so don't quote me.
Last edited by scurra; 05-08-2017 at 07:27 AM.