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Poker Goals & Challenges Post your threads logging your travels up the poker ladder as you achieve your poker goals and dreams. "Challenges" does NOT mean prop bets, wagers, etc.

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Old 01-03-2017, 08:09 PM   #51
Tabachoy
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

Gl
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:17 PM   #52
trent32la
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

Subbed, gl to your stable/coaches this year! Should be a fun thread to follow.
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:19 PM   #53
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

Team bet instead?
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:24 PM   #54
neveren0ugh
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

Best stable ever, confirmed.
Let's crush in 2017!
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:25 PM   #55
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

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Originally Posted by demetri1978 View Post
Lets do 4 million then just online.

Live poker with players playing 25ks+ and selling 80% of there action etc. No point there.

If someone leaves it should be pretty easy to cut that person from the chart from xyz date. Then add the new player in.

Just do the main sites PS/Party/888. (open to add maybe 1-2 more in)

I would up my bet to 10k for this as I am pretty sure it can't be done from your guys.

So my 10k vs your 20k
This was our 2016



Maybe we just ran really good and inb4broke doesn't include 2 guys who left us with around 600k profits between them, but includes guys we took on where we didn't have action in them earlier in the year etc.

I guess the numbers should look something like

100 (players) x 400 (Avg games/month) x 12 x 40 (abi) / 0.2 (roi) = $3840000

Here is avg stake of just 20 random guys in the stable. So abi could be a little bit higher (this was for December so doesn't account for stuff like WCOOP/SCOOP where things get massively inflated) I think our players avg roi is over 20% too though, but then again perhaps I'm biased or the sites will try their best to reduce that. We also only have 70 players now rather than 100 which reduces it.

Anyway I don't personally need to bet on it, its goal/challenge so will strive towards it, if we manage the same as last year then vamos, if not then at least I know we will have tried hard

Maybe somebody else takes you up on the bet though.

Edit: Btw we've never had a % of a horse in anything higher than EPT Main event, definitely no high rollers etc, yet at least. But we do spend a lot of time trying to improve our players live game, specialised coaches, sessions etc and we prob invest 7 figures in it next year and ofc live poker has high rois so will use live results for our $5m goal.
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:34 PM   #56
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

Running a legit business and calling ur people Horses is so.... I know its the norm but I couldn't do it. I have no suggestions but there has to be something. Player(s) even

I'll Definitely be following, looks like it could be an awesome thread.
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:37 PM   #57
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

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Originally Posted by kingc11 View Post
Running a legit business and calling ur people Horses is so.... I know its the norm but I couldn't do it. I have no suggestions but there has to be something. Player(s) even

I'll Definitely be following, looks like it could be an awesome thread.
It's not meant in disrespect at all, just kind of how it is I guess. Definitely isn't said in a derogatory manner, but a few times in mid conversation I've stopped myself saying it. Not sure how they feel about the term? Feel free to chime in lads
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:37 PM   #58
demetri1978
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

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Originally Posted by OurSurveySays View Post
This was our 2016



Maybe we just ran really good and inb4broke doesn't include 2 guys who left us with around 600k profits between them, but includes guys we took on where we didn't have action in them earlier in the year etc.

I guess the numbers should look something like

100 (players) x 400 (Avg games/month) x 12 x 40 (abi) / 0.2 (roi) = $3840000

Here is avg stake of just 20 random guys in the stable. So abi could be a little bit higher (this was for December so doesn't account for stuff like WCOOP/SCOOP where things get massively inflated) I think our players avg roi is over 20% too though, but then again perhaps I'm biased or the sites will try their best to reduce that. We also only have 70 players now rather than 100 which reduces it.

Anyway I don't personally need to bet on it, its goal/challenge so will strive towards it, if we manage the same as last year then vamos, if not then at least I know we will have tried hard

Maybe somebody else takes you up on the bet though.

Edit: Btw we've never had a % of a horse in anything higher than EPT Main event, definitely no high rollers etc, yet at least. But we do spend a lot of time trying to improve our players live game, specialised coaches, sessions etc and we prob invest 7 figures in it next year and ofc live poker has high rois so will use live results for our $5m goal.
After reading that post I think I should be getting 5-1!

Ok just for fun 4 million profit online, all your current guys on the major online sites.

odds 1/1....5k vs your 5k

You can have 2 group charts, so if players leave you take them out of group 1 chart. New players come in you can just add them group 2 chart, end of year you add both charts up.

Should be really easy.

(just a fun bet tbh, drinks are on the winner to!)
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:45 PM   #59
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

This will be interesting to follow, it's super impressive to me that you guys are able to do this in the 2016/17 poker environment. Feels like half the oldschool big stables gave up before you even came in and now you are, well, best in the business. Respect.

Btw you mentioned you have that one data analyst guy who's sort of at the top of the pyramid of information. How did you find him / what kind of absurd $$$ are you paying him? Sounds like he'd have to be some retired endboss or something. I'm just curious.
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:47 PM   #60
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

haha I said I don't wanna bet buddy

I actually bought 20 books today, will list in a second. This one should have been written by you



These books were basically all recommended from Fedor/Prat. I think both guys are probably more philosophical than I and naturally smarter than I. Books that they can relate to, I, as a mere mortal probably cannot. They will likely grasp things that I just can't quite get my head around. I will try to review each one that I read here and put 1-10 points that I take from it after I read, or be honest and say how many pages I read before giving up. Hopefully people itt are similar to I than the geniuses like Holz and Buddiga and I can give a little insight to what I learn here.

The Four Agreements: Practical Guide to Personal Freedom (Toltec Wisdom)
Sold by Amazon EU S.a.r.L.
£8.39
The Magic of Thinking Big
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£6.99
Superforecasting: The Art and Science of Prediction
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£6.29
Algorithms To Live By: The Computer Science of Human Decisions
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£13.60
Daily Rituals
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£8.99
The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People
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£11.89
The Art of Happiness: A Handbook for Living
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£9.89
The 4-Hour Work Week: Escape the 9-5, Live Anywhere and Join the New Rich
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£9.09
Elon Musk: How the Billionaire CEO of SpaceX and Tesla is Shaping our Future
Sold by Amazon EU S.a.r.L.
£6.99
Perfect Health Diet: regain health and lose weight by eating the way you were meant to eat
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£14.99
Man's Search For Meaning: The classic tribute to hope from the Holocaust
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£5.59
Radical Acceptance: Awakening the Love that Heals Fear and Shame
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£13.48
Apple 2 m Thunderbolt Cable
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£37.78
The Founder's Dilemmas: Anticipating and Avoiding the Pitfalls That Can Sink a Startup (The Kauffman Foundation Series on Innovation and Entrepreneurs
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£11.96
Losing My Virginity
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£8.39
Tools of Titans: The Tactics, Routines, and Habits of Billionaires, Icons, and World-Class Performers
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£10.49
Antifragile: Things that Gain from Disorder
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£8.79
God's Debris: A Thought Experiment
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£13.76
A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy
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£9.09
Tao Te Ching
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£5.95
The Carb Nite Solution: The Physicist's Guide to Power Dieting
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£23.77
[NEW in UK] PetFusion Ultimate Dog Bed & Lounge. (Large Gray, 92x71x23CM). Premium Edt Solid 10.5CM Memory Foam
Condition: New
Sold by PetFusion EU
Fulfilled by Amazon
£89.95
The Truth: An Uncomfortable Book About Relationships
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:49 PM   #61
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

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Originally Posted by Chuck Bass View Post
This will be interesting to follow, it's super impressive to me that you guys are able to do this in the 2016/17 poker environment. Feels like half the oldschool big stables gave up before you even came in and now you are, well, best in the business. Respect.

Btw you mentioned you have that one data analyst guy who's sort of at the top of the pyramid of information. How did you find him / what kind of absurd $$$ are you paying him? Sounds like he'd have to be some retired endboss or something. I'm just curious.
I probably over hyped this part a little bit, so apologies if I wasn't being super transparent about this. We just have people who look into things probably 5x deeper than our competitors but 1/100th of what he would like to actually do if given the resources. He actually reached out to us after seeing me on Joe Ingrams podcast if I remember correctly. Pretty funny industry
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:57 PM   #62
demetri1978
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

gym bet if you join my gym?
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Old 01-03-2017, 08:58 PM   #63
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

Vamonosssss, lets get em!
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Old 01-03-2017, 09:02 PM   #64
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

Subbed obv, best of luck, will be interesting to follow! You seem like a bunch of nice people.
As for the horse name discussion, couldn“t they just be called employees, partners, etc??Don“t think the name is necessarily bad, but at times i“ve also wondered if there“s a better name for it.
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Old 01-03-2017, 09:15 PM   #65
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

Vamosssssss, 2016 by far the year were I improved the most at Poker by FAR thanks to BitB, and will make sure to 2017 be even better, subbed and LFGO!
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Old 01-03-2017, 09:27 PM   #66
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

GL!

Subbed..
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Old 01-03-2017, 09:43 PM   #67
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

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Originally Posted by OurSurveySays View Post
[NEW in UK] PetFusion Ultimate Dog Bed & Lounge. (Large Gray, 92x71x23CM). Premium Edt Solid 10.5CM Memory Foam
Condition: New
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Recommend this, great read!
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:04 AM   #68
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

OK, bringing this back to life after some discussion with OP (sorry it took so long - my fault).

Basically, the issue was that, intended or not, a thread like this will be hugely +EV for OP's business. We'd have PG&C filled with affiliate, coaching, and staking "journeys" if we allowed everyone to do this.

We've come to an agreement with OP that we'll try this thread out, since he does advertise with us, and we feel the thread is good for our site as well. It can't be promotional in nature, and as a result I'd ask others to refrain from questions about promotions, features, etc. I get that there will be questions about OP's business since that's what the thread is about, but it's just going to get shut down again if it ends up becoming a thread where everyone just talks about how great the business is. The fact that we're letting OP try this doesn't necessarily mean others will be able to; this is an experiment of sorts.

Hopefully this makes sense; I know there may appear to be some contradictions in my explanation, and what is or isn't promotional is fairly subjective. Let's try it for a while and see where it goes.

And while I don't want to say no one can make comments on this post, I don't want to derail the thread with debates over policy, so if you have feedback on this or questions you'd like answered, it might be best to PM or email me directly.

/derail
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:18 AM   #69
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

1st ....kinda
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Old 02-04-2017, 01:00 AM   #70
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

It lives! It lives!
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Old 02-04-2017, 01:01 AM   #71
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

Alright, alright we're back in business. "Thanks" to 2p2, eventually sorting it out.

So we started this and closed down on January 3rd? Since then we had a very busy month. Basically whenever there is a series around there is tens of hours of extra work compared to normal.

We developed a system last year where we have 14 tiers in the stable. Each tier has the same games allowed to be played, tier 1 is playing epts, suoer Tuesday every week etc and tier 14 is playing micro stakes. We generally don't take anybody on under tier 11 but if we get an amazing application from somebody super smart with no experience etc then we may give them a whirl in tier 14, but it's extremely rare. Each players goal every month is try to get closer to the next tier. We have had guys go from tier 12 to tier 1 in less than 6 months, if somebody works hard enough they can move up tiers very quickly, if somebody gets lazy then they can also move in the opposite direction.

Why tiers are important to us:

1- it gives our players something concrete to work towards in a variant that is hugely impacted by variance, it shows our players that other things than results will be rewarded
2- it allows us to maximise the ev of every single horse. By huge scrutiny it gives us the power to know who is performing at exactly what level and how close they are to higher stake games. Remember, if we have a guy who is not playing in a game where he's making money, were effectively making a mistake and costing ourselves money. I don't like costing myself money.

So at the start of the year we had to evaluate every single guy in the stable, we have one large scoring rating system which has 6 different factors with 6 different weights, so for example could be something like:

1- stats (25%)
2- 1on1 coaching reports (15%)
3- results (10%)
4- volume (10%)
5- community contribution (10%)
6- investors instinct (30%)

In terms of stats we have 60 different stats in pt4 and our players know how we want each of them to look, we evaluate them every month or so and it gives our players something to look to. Currently were in the middle of making a video for every single stat. So for example I may make a 3 minute video showing how to improve fold to turn probe and we have 60 or so different stats/videos for them to continue working on. These are stats we believe are optimal vs population tendancies.

Coaching reports are basically just all of our private coaches reporting back on their monthly 1on1s with each individual horse. If they were lazy, unprepared, not focused etc then this is marked down, if they prepared some really interesting things and were engaging and followed up then this is generally great news.

Volume/results is self explanatory. We expect a minimum of 400 games/month on average, but we expect more from guys who really want to succeed. Results are not just profit but evbb/100 on different sample sizes and different blind levels. People look at evbb/100 overall, but I only really look at it for blinds 400+ as too many huge pots that are somewhat irrelevant early on in tournaments can greatly skew.

Our community is our biggest strength. Coaching is great, our hard work is good and helps prepare and put things together but it's the guys themselves and how hard they work together and their combined attitude which ultimately makes them crushers. Everybody is expected to contribute on discord, on the forums and overall and this is taking into account when giving people additional games.

Finally and probably most importantly is investors instinct. This is basically me, European and Elmerixx overall feeling for the guy. Maybe he has amazing results, plays 900 games a month and stats looks good, but if we just have a bad feeling then we have a bad feeling and it's very hard to ignore and in general our instinct has always been proven to be somewhat correct, so we value our own opinion and instinct and count this quite heavily in terms of tier organization.

So anyway, everything is scored together, averaged out and then we have a final score of every guy. Now just because a guy has a better score than somebody else doesn't mean he should be in a higher tier. Maybe he's playing $20 abi and crushing hard with big volume, drastically moving him up to tier 1 and playing $150 abi would be stupid. We like to gradually move leople up, let them experience slightly larger make up numbers, make sure their mental game stays strong, make them work with slightly better players in the stable and in general slowly Moulds them into a crusher.

So, after dozens of hours of analysis, discussions, meetings, debate we finally have new tiers for all 70 or so guys and then we have to tell them. Each guy gets a detailed break down of where they were, where we are putting them, what they need to do to get to the next tier and what improvements we are looking for and finally, most importantly, what they are doing really well. Our guys in general are crushers, they work so hard and just constantly saying you need to do xyz isn't good, they need positive reinforcement and high confidence so they aren't doubting themselves.

So, new tiers made.. 5 days later a huge tcoop/XL series/powerfest series starts and as perfectionists as we like to be, we decide we have to look through every single tournament that runs and assign it a tier, will save this for the next post..
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Old 02-04-2017, 01:23 AM   #72
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

Ok, so we sit down on ( I'm going to wildly guess) Monday 12th January. We have hundreds of games we need to look at. Generally the way that j think stables do this kind of thing regarding to series is to blanket players and buy in levels such as:

1- you can play all 1-109s and 11rs and you can seek to anything above
2- you can play all 1-215s and 22rs and you can sell above
3- you can play all 1-530s and 55rs and you can sell above
4- you can play whatever you want, no restrictions

Now believe me, doing this would make our lives a lot easier. But two problems with this, 1) it seems like we don't like making our life easier, 2) the series are the biggest time of our horses year. They play Monday- Friday in July when it's hot outside and there's girls walking half naked so that they can excel at series. Of course they enjoy the grind, but when the big series come along, there's a huge emphasis on the bif prizepools and ultimately, this is what MTT players live for. If we spent 10 minutes preparing schedules for the guys who give everything to us all day every day 52 weeks a year I'm not sure I could really respect myself, and if I don't respect myself or act "proper" they definitely aren't going to respect me or treat our money with as much respect.

So, red bull out, excel sheets open...there is 5 of us in every meeting, me, Tomi (Elmerixx) Sam (European) Felix (German game/data/finance analyst) and Raymond (general manager)

For the first 60 minutes or so we discuss our overall approach for the series. We evaluate makeup numbers, we have a lot of confidence right now because last week we put everybody in their correct tiers meaning that there shouldn't be any mistakes and there's not a guy in a higher tier that shouldn't be there etc. we evaluate everything and discuss our approach. How aggressive should we be? We look at prizepools from previous years, check how tough final tables were, speculate about our potential Rois. We made a group on sharkscope of 30-50 high stake elite regs and filtered for their results in hypers, in turbos, in different field sizes. Much to our surprise the results were actually pretty good. Overall I wanted to gamble a little bit more than the rest of the guys for almost every single tournament. That's the problem with such important meetings. If you wake up and you're optimistic about the world, you've seen a horse completely crush the final three tables of the Sunday million and you've had people donating to you all day on Sunday you can think you're invincible, think we have a machine printing out money faster than Firaldo gets to the bar at the welcome party at EPT and you try to press as much as possible. Another Monday maybe you've lost $15k youreelf, reentries the party 530 more than Lena900 and saw your top horses jam 13bbs with k9 in the cut off and start questioning is this all worth it and how much can I sell my shares to European for?!

For whatever reason, I must have had a good Sunday and I wanted to press very hard in almost every tournament but the others reigned me in a little bit. That's kind of the good thing about having 5 guys, whilst meetings may drag on from debate, in general, the majority will think more rationally than an individual.

So anyway, we go through each tournament. Party $530 on a Friday maybe tier 5 but on a Tuesday it may be tier 2. We look at which other tournaments are on the other sites on he same day, for example if stars only have a zoom tournament on a Friday and 888 has a webcam tournament then it would be a great time to press hard on party poker especially.

Eventually we work out the schedules, we give them to the guys. We don't allow anybody to play anything off stake, the guys have to respect us and believe in us that we're making them the highest ev schedules. Sometimes a player will ask can I play X or y and we will let them play on stake. I know when I was moving up the stakes, sometimes I Jair felt really great and it would make my day if I could play an extra 2-3 tournaments. We offer basically 24/7 service to the guys and their needs/requests and whilst we ask them not to overly request things were ok with a few exceptions. We also monitor every tournament when it's running, if we expected the Monday 6max to have an ability of 83 and all of a sudden were 3 levels in and there's an ability of 76 we will inform all of the guys in tiers X-y they should jump in and we make a mental note for SCOOP that this particular tournament performed great. We also monitor each tournament for overlays. We saved party pokers ass a few times when there was going to be big overlays, we got our guys to jump in and chase the Evs.

Will write in the next post about how we did results wise, and the stupid $100k bet vs the swedes...
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Old 02-04-2017, 01:48 AM   #73
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

Excited to follow thread and post as much as possible to help add up for the REG donation


Fun to see behind the scenes and what kind of work people are putting in to improve their game
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Old 02-04-2017, 02:12 AM   #74
SwoopAE
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

This thread makes me happy I don't play full time anymore as it would be next to impossible to compete in an onpeak schedule with this type of organisation without an absolutely ridiculous coaching/study schedule. I know a few of your horses/coaches and they only have positive things to say, good luck and I have no doubt your team will continue to crush.
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Old 02-04-2017, 03:04 AM   #75
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Re: $5m Profit in 2017 - Best In the Business

Subbed. Interesting thread for sure!
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