Good luck OP!

GL dude! Ill be railing.

Had a very hard last couple days of the week. I lost 20 buy-ins in one day** It was pretty devastating to all my momentum and my progress. It really hurt my bankroll as well. I dropped back down to a danger zone for playing 2/5, but still will continue until I basically can't play it anymore. Ideally I always like to have 100 buy-ins as a base for any level I play constantly, and I've dipped below 50 now. It's definitely harder to play with that weight of pressure knowing if I have a few more bad losing days i'll have to drop down to 1/2, which is basically a territory where it's almost impossible to make a living online playing now. So my goal for this week is to regroup, and really try hard to put in quality time. Put in my fitness/meditation time, and then really try to focus hard on rebounding my BR by putting those hands in.

** The 20 buy-in lose was a combination of poor stop loss discipline, and unfocused playing. I got caught up playing a reg HU while playing zoom as well and wasn't focused on the zoom very much at all. That was a big mistake. First time I had done that in a long time. Also after losing 10 buy-ins I felt so compelled to try and win it back, that I just kept playing, justifying to myself the games were amazing. So I probably wasn't playing my A game, and then combine all that with running really bad, and that was how I lost 20 buy-ins. I also didn't meditate that day, so maybe there's a correlation with my mindset and playing when I do and don't meditate.


Graph of the week. Started off strong, and then...

I've known you a long time, and I think you need to take a bit of a different approach to poker.

Play less tables, play your A game, game select, and only play for a few hours at a time. I know you want to grind your way out of a lot of these situations but you just need to focus on playing the best you can. Also I would stop taking shots if you are at a point where you are in a dangerzone to play 2/5, that probably means you shouldn't be playing higher until you've built back up a bankroll.

I think it takes a lot of courage to post this stuff on the internet and am certainly rooting for you. But just take it a day at a time and try to make sure every hand you play is a well played one.

+1, putting out all your weaknesses although hard is probably great to write about

I think you should be maybe try to figure out when you started to mess up mid session. I'm very fixated about this idea because we all mess up at some point and to figure out why can save a ton of money/ possible damage to your bankroll.

For example what you can do.. if you mainly play zoom, anytime you lose 3 BI sit out next hand, ask a few questions to yourself to see if you are playing your best game if you are sit back in. Recover mentally, eat/stretch/drink water whatever, then go back to the games if you feel you are playing well. If not write down why and what could have caused it etc to be prepared for next time.

Also.. To the reg battling thing, I've also been having a certain mentality against them lately they are your customers generally as well, but they aren't VIP. You can time out, you can take it slow, you can take a 3-5 minute break if you need to etc. They will always be there, don't worry, unless you're WCG, then sorry maybe another lifetime champ.

Although I would not like you to repeat this again, I do hope you find a way to minimize this as much as possible in the future. I also understand that when you are in this state you are not entirely in the most rational state and you will say whatever you can in order to stay in the games and play and get unstuck... but I am in the belief that if you keep reminding yourself of strict rules that you must adhere to as a professional eventually it will start getting better and you can quit when you are suppose to easier.

Wow - im just discovering this thread - Ty for making this thread.

I really empathise with your story as it sounds similar to mine (and quite a few midstakes grinders I guess?), although you are way more talented than I am.

I am in a pretty similar spot as yours right now. I'm playing a bit lower than you (2/5 zoom is the highest I play regularly), and low volume too, trying to focus on wr. It is not going as I was hoping it would. I dont want to derail your thread with my stuff so I'll go straight to my point. My point is about volume. I just read WCG's post, and I feel weird going against him as he "made" it and obv "knows better" how to get there.

Anyway, I feel like your volume (and mine) is a serious problem. You play 5k hands a week (I play a bit more, but not much). In my opinion, it is not enough to build a BR when you withdraw for living expenses, loans for friends, investments etc. WCG tells you to play less tables, for a few hours at a time - but how much less than 5k hands/week can you go? I think that's what you are already doing at the moment; playing few tables and few hours at a time; otherwise volume would be way higher.

Even if you crush the game, playing 20k hands a month will lead to downswings, losing weeks, and losing months. Maybe even a losing/break-even period of 6months can happen playing that little. Especially in PLO, with such variance (ex: in post 28 you posted a 20k hand sample where you ran 14bb/100 over ev; it could easily go the other way). Having losing months will affect your play, your mental, your drive to play etc.

I know I'm not saying stuff you dont already know. I am writing this as much for me than for you, as I am in a similar situation and am trying to find some ways to increase my volume without dipping too much into bb/100 and real life stuff. Its pretty hard to do for me. So I would be very gratefull for any insight from you on this topic of why you are choosing the low volume/high wr route and why you think it can take you to where you want to be.

I feel like if someone wants to build a BR he should be playing at least 80k+ hands per month. Even if it divides ur bb/100 by a factor of 2. At least, it'll be way harder to have losing months. (not sure how people manage to play 100k+ hands/month and keep sane, but would love to know the secret)

see you at the tables

Thanks for the feedback guys.
Doug, Ya I agree with you. I think that focusing on playing well and less tables would help my win rate for sure, the problem is winning at 10bb/100 over 15k hands a month isn't as good as winning at 6bb/100 over 50k hands a month. I do believe that I can learn to play more tables, and put in a bit more volume than just 2 tabling zoom, otherwise I can hit super long stretches of variance. On the flip side, I do think it's worth playing less tables and focusing on playing well if I'm not feeling like I can maintain my focus for a 4 tabling session. When i'm in the zone and playing great, I feel I can play 3-4 tables well and maintain my strategy, but when that focus flickers at all, I can derail hard, and it will cost me.

So I think the trick is finding a happy medium, either play short sessions of 4 tables, or longer sessions of 2 tables, so maybe playing a medium session of 3 tables would be a compromise. I'll continue to play 2-3 tables until I work my focus back up, and then add a table again and see how it goes.

I have stopped taking shots essentially only playing 2/4-5/10 until I get my bankroll back up over the 6 figure mark. I've done this many times, so i'm confident I have the ability to do it as long as i'm patient.

Well, unfortunate start to the week. Hit my stop loss pretty quickly. Stuck 3.3k and it's not even noon yet :/ Most of the hands I believe are standard. One hand is a bit awkward and tricky. I think I may have misplayed the flop/turn on it, but mostly ran into coolers today. Now the trick is to use the rest of the day productively while not playing. I'm very tempted to just keep playing since I feel i'm playing well, just running bad, but I think the pain of losing another 3k is worse than getting even, and when that's the case, it seems not worth it to put the hands in. Normally if I lose 3k, but put good hands in, it wouldn't bother me. When i'm already stuck 3k and then lose more, that's when I'm prone to tilt.

So I ended up going to the gym, and used my free time productively (success) to work on my other goal of fitness. I mentioned it briefly in my intro to this thread, but fitness has always been a life long goal for me. If anyone is interested in more specifics I may update fitness more often as well, but for now I wanted to post my specs so I can read back and see how I progressed with fitness along side my poker.

Height: 5' 9.5"
Weight: 154 lbs (scale in the morning) 155.8 lbs (scale at gym) 70 kg (lol canada)
Waist 33.5 in
Bi's: 12.5 in relaxed 13.25 in flexed
Thighs: 18.75 in relaxed
Bodyfat: 15.6%
Fat Mass: 24.21 lbs

I'd like to get to 160 lbs 10% body fat eventually. To do this I'd like to get down to 10% bf first, and then clean bulk up. I've tried bulking up first, and it always gets sloppy, so this time i'll try the other way around.

Bodyweight Fitness is my passion, and I generally will use it to achieve my goals. I have a trainer that I train with once a week which is more for functional training. I want to improve my lifts and progressions on my own. So far I'm at:

Pull-ups: 6 5 3
Dips: 7 7 4
Bench Pistols: 8 8 8 (this is easy for me)
Tucked L-sit: 13 seconds 7 seconds 7 seconds
Between two blocks pushups: 8 7 5
Bar Row: 7 5 4

These are the main lifts. I used to be able to do some very difficult progressions a couple of years ago like a one armed push up, full L-sit, and tucked front lever rows, but over time i've gotten lazy and lost a lot of that progress and gained some extra fat. So I'd definitely like to get back to my old shape, and then improve to beat it

Last few days have been a train wreck. It has been a long downswing caused by tilt/bad playing/running bad. It is really tough mentally to log on and put hands in when I lose 3 buy-ins at the beginning of a session, and feel helpless in winning. I think most of the time it's definitely out of my control, but sometimes it does affect my play when I lose so consistently. I'm taking a break for the next 4 days and starting at ground zero. I've lost most of my roll and have barely enough to play 1/2. I'm still ok life wise and can always reload my roll if i hit absolute 0, but i'm trying to avoid that at all costs. I'm starting at 1/2 with 10k with the goal of rebuilding back so that I can grind 2/5-5/10. I'm going to try branching out to a few sites and diversify since the other sites are surely softer at 1/2.

I need to change my goals now that I have a low bankroll. I will build it by playing in good spots, and playing soft games.
My roll starting this new adventure is 11,189. I don't have a timeline for moving up, but generally I'll start taking shots at 2/4 -2/5 when I get back up around 20k, and take shots at 5/10 at around 40-50k.

Posting the important stats here

That sucks to hear man
Hope you run well enough to get out of my games!

I usually say 5'10" but I feel it's cheating.

Ceegee what is motivating you to make it to the top? Are you that financially well off that potentially lighting off your last 10k doesn't have any difference in your life?

I play poker because it has the potential to give me stability, and afford the things I want. It's super flexible, and I don't have to work for anyone. I genuinely enjoy playing poker. That's why I continue to play. I hardly think I'm going to light my last 10k by continuing to play, unless you're trolling.

No I'm not trolling (or judging). Legit just asking questions.. I mean you went from rolled to playing 2k, shot taking 5k, to dropping down to 5/10.. Then to 500 only, and now you only have a roll big enough for 200...

As he mentioned throughout previous posts he made some mistakes when it came to playing a bit underrolled in big games and then ran awful/didn't play his best after moving down to 500plo. It's not that hard to burn through a big chunk of money when you don't end up following your stop loss at 100/200 and have a rough session. He hasn't magically become a losing player, he just wasn't following proper br mgmt a chunk of the time and plo is a sick game with sick variance. Playing 1/2 plo on a 10k br for a decently winning player is going to be fine most of the time. And it's also from how it's presented not his last 10k to his name or something, it's just the remainder of his online bankroll. It seems like he has life funds outside of that 10k to live. He's made some mistakes but he recognizes it and has moved all the way down to 1/2 to rebuild. He will turn it around.

gl ceegee

Thanks man! Appreciate the explanation, as I couldn't have said it better myself. Felt good hearing some encouraging words as well

i never said he was a losing player. and i know how crazy the variance is in plo. ive also played quite a bit of mixed (obv nothing even close to big as what ceegee plays) to that yeah im aware a good player can get whacked in that format as well.

i guess im asking if he has a stop loss? or is maybe even thinking long term? where is this going to go? is he going to keep the dream of playing 5k alive even if he's grinding 100z or 50z?

just looks like hes dropped way down in stakes to the point where the chances of achieving his goal are probably very tiny.

again- im not being a dick. im not laughing at someones pain/ struggle. it just that well... instead of having people blindly cheering you on.. maybe you also need someone else that is thinking idk logically/ practically and asking somewhat difficult questions... that way if you ever get to that point you already plan a,b,c set up ready to go.

gl

154 @ 15 to 160 @ 10 will be a journey. how long have you been lifting for? gl

If I bust my poker bankroll I'm not reloading with my savings. If I lose this 10k I'm done using my own money and would likely get a stake.

Yes. I don't expect to be playing 5k by the end of the year or anything, but I will try and achieve my goal even if I slip back a lot. If you notice in the beginning of the thread, I was very close to playing 5k.

I would argue that my chances of achieving this are "tiny". It will take a long time. I'm determined to succeed, and I would bet I accomplish it.


I'm not delusional, I understand it's possible that I can't beat online anymore and will have to move on to something else, but while I have a bankroll and the determination to accomplish my goals, i'll continue trying.

You living in the states? I'd recommend moving back and playing live for a while to rebuild and get your confidence back.

I'm living in Vancouver. States isn't an option for me. I love playing online, and I have built a life here in Van.

I fear that rents in vancouver are a far bigger obstacle than the opposition you will encounter at PLO 200

I've been lifting on and off for a long time. I can do it if I'm disciplined.

yea just stay consistent. the gains are minimal after the first 2+ years of lifting but gl anyways.