interested in this book

for anyone who read it.... better than elements of poker and poker mindset or similiar good ?

Forgive me for being tl;dr & fanboy but:

I would say better, but not from a strictly comparable point of view. What I mean is they are all different and in my opinion along with Schoonmakers' Psychology of Poker. Both PoP & Poker Mindset are assisted by Sklanksky, which make the read very 'Sklanksy-ish'. i.e. they both have an EV/Theory/Strategy feel to them with hand examples, etc. I think they are both highly valuable. Elements of Poker is a classic and is almost a laymans tool bag to mental game, i.e. working on relaxing and breathing, and breaks. There are tons of valuable 'nuggets' of just strong human wisdom in there.

In The MGoP, Jared takes a strong pshycology approach more than strategy, and jumps past the fact that you know you are tilting, and you know you shouldn't, and taking a break or breathing will help in the moment, but not fix the problem, to here's how to. He does this by asking questions that make you dig into why you are tilting and then lays out a 'guide' of how to improve the weaknesses, so that they don't show up in the future, or at least less and less as you work on it.

I personally suffered from winners tilt or over-confidence, when I would be crushing, I would think I was in 'beast mode' and 'soul reading'. I would normally think I was Tom Dwan and play every hand and try to destroy every spot, instead of staying in my 'A game' that built my stack, usually donating most of it back.

I was in a situation tonight where I was cruising and was chip leader, I then thought about 'running over the table' I then decided instead I would just continue to play optimal poker right then regardless of how good I thought I was playing the result was I continued to win, until I ran QQ into AK, but then again that is just standard poker variance, which is fine too. I played great and put myself in position to win by focusing on playing my A game almost sub-consciously while simultaneously trying to improve my C game. The end result was a loss in 8th place, but a win as I am continually improving. Perfection is a moving target. Wins will come.

Cliffs:
Sorry for the long arse answer, but I think they are all good, and you should read them all, but think of MGoP as close as you can get to a poker psychology coach/counselor for $50 bucks.

This is pretty much exactly what we considered the difference between our book and the others mentioned. Its very gratifying that people are seeing it the same way, and at the same token not feeling the need to say 'if you like one, you cant like the other'.

We love Schoonmaker, Tommy, and Taylor & Hilgers books and say so at the very start of the book, because without them pushing the boundaries, we probably would not have been able to do the targeted 'performance/mental leak' book we did.

There is no doubt that this book will be worth its weight in gold. From someone who suffers from mental illness & finds that time & time again my biggest leaks are in the mental game. I can't wait to buy a copy. Will be very soon. By the way Jared as you mentioned in a previous post that golf & poker have many similarities. You are absolutely correct & your advice can be a game changer for both.

Sorry if this is a bit too off-topic. I considered sending it as a PM but thought others might benefit from your response.

I am very keen to extend the techniques in the book into everyday life, in particular resolving problems/mental blocks in a way similar to a mental HH. Let's just say my "life mental game" is extremely weak and if I could transfer a fraction of the things from poker into normal life it would help so much. I have had many different therapists and medications and nothing has helped to be more normal, healthy and happy. I get frustrated by the lack of "real" help available: all it consists of is people listening and offering vague, wishy-washy, insubstantial advice.

I like to think of myself as self-aware and analytical; I think I have a decent grasp about some of my cognitive flaws, but no plan of action on how to resolve them. For example, I am terrible at spotting the positive variance in life: I see the worst in almost everything, worry about the future, assume people I meet hate me, get incredibly jealous of successful people to the point of obsession. I know life problems are far more complex and more deeply ingrained than those in poker...but do you think it could be worth trying? I'm kind of at a loss, want to die quite a lot, etc. Sometimes just desperately want a new brain or none at all.

Can you recommend any books/further reading, or do you think this is a bad idea? Apologies for the emo/personal/tldr post but just not sure what to do and felt a lot of your techniques could transfer well into normal life. Thanks.

I can relate to to everything you mentioned. Very similar thoughts. You are not alone. Never apologize for expressing your feelings, there is nothing wrong with that imo. As well as you, I am hoping things will get better. This book seems as a step forward in the right direction.

Ross

I am not psychiatrist. I don't want to derail the thread but I do want to post this here, in case anyone else can use the advice.

I will try to do my best to answer the question as you have asked. I recently as five days ago lost a really close friend from high school, he jumped off a bridge. I then began to study the psychology of people who 'jump'. And the overwhelming response is it is an act of impulse or passion out of a desperate moment. i.e. crisis and pain mounts and the person then begins to think that escape at any means necessary is the resolution. But of all the data on suicide jumpers that have failed, only 6% go on to stay suicidal, most are 'cured' realizing that they didn't want to die, they just wanted the pain to stop. All of this seems so obvious, but my friend didn't survive.

How the book relates to all of this:

Essentially in poker for example we strive for perfection, we want to never lose a pot, or a game, or a session, and when we lose bunches we think we are terrible. We think that we need to get to some place in our life that is utopia, but it's not there, so then we are discontent and our low feels so low, but this is just the way it is, and if things feel desperate, that desperate feeling will pass. PERFECTION IS IN THE STRIVING, NOT THE DESTINATION. So in another words like life, and poker, variance happens, so much is out of our control, we have to make peace with variance, and try our hardest to get better, to improve. And the same is with you in your life, you have to take off the rose colored glasses and the crap colored glasses and you will see a lot of things that need work, but what's different between winners and losers, is quitting or trying. So try and try harder.

I will say this as well, you are smart. And if you body or you mind is communicating pain, it is the warning sign, that something is not right. Go to a Dr, ask for help. And if that Dr doesn't help you go to another one. If you cannot find or afford a good Dr go to a free counseling clinic or an ER. Google a hotline for help. Do not be proud and do not give up. I believe in you.

If you are feeling really down and need help, feel free to PM me if you need help, and I will help you find it.

Great to hear Jos. Look forward to your next post.

I want to echo Barry's reply. You really do understand what were were trying to accomplish with the book, and where it stands among books on the mental side of the game. TMGP builds on what Schoonmaker, Hilger, Angelo, and other started, and goes deeper into detail around four major areas of the mental game: Tilt, Fear, Motivation, Confidence, plus basic learning/performance theories.

Great explanation. Also, very cool to hear how you're applying the material both to improve how you play and improve how you evaluate how you play.

I hope it a game changer for you in many ways. Once you get into the book, don't hesitate to post questions if you have them.

Wow. This sounds a lot like me. Saving for the book + coaching. I am desperately looking for answers & positive change.

Dunamo - great comments. Really well said.

It's interesting, you're comments about the lack of "real" help is one of the motivators for me to create an alternative. I will say though, that while there are many therapists who aren't giving solid advice, there are many good ones out there. I've worked along side some, and visited others myself (I practice what I preach). One of my long-term goals is to eventually turn the core of my program into something that can be used in the "performance of life" in a sense. Ultimately, we're people playing/performing in games. The issues that often emerge in poker, are often mirrored in life, and vice versa. Many of my clients have talked about how the techniques that we discuss in purely poker terms helps them in other areas of their life. Occasionally, some want specific help in life, and I use similar techniques applied to that personal issue. Long story short, yes, my techniques can help. But, the book lacks a robust discussion of specific personal issues, that I wouldn't talk about in a poker book.

In our previous exchange we talked about Accumulated Tilt. It sounds to me like there's a similar problem for you personally, where there's been a build up of frustration/negativity/anxiety that overwhelms your mind and makes it really hard to make progress. On a personal level, there is a form of therapy that's been proven to be very effective in dealing with Accumulated Emotion - it's called EMDR. I'm trained in this technique, and it's a powerful simple technique that's helped a range of issues. If you have any questions about it, PM me.

One of the problems with being self-aware, and likely very bright, is that it can be easy to out-level yourself. You know the problems, try your best to solve them, but struggle because the underlying issues aren't being addressed. That's where a professional comes in. I suggest using the EMDR link to find a trained therapist in your area. Before you fork over money for a first session, ask to speak for 5 minutes, where you can briefly explain your experience working with therapists, what you're looking for, and gauge their response. If you like what you hear, try one session. If in that call or the first session, you're not happy. Move on. Call another one. Help is out there and there are a lot of good people out there.

Unfortunately, I don't have any book suggestions for you. I haven't been working with people on a personal level (exclusively) in 6 years and don't have my resources lined up like I used to.

Lastly, please promise me, the others engaged in this thread, and yourself, that if your thoughts of hurting yourself are serious or become serious, you'll get help.

Took delivery of mine few days ago- very fast delivery which is great

Hi,can I buy it from china?
Thanks

Yes! Go to either my site or amazon.com.