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Old 07-16-2017, 12:42 AM   #1
jeldredge33
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WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

V1 -$275 - MAWG, been playing solid, nothing out of line for 4 hours thus far
V2 -$190 - 30 year old blond woman, new to table, seems timid and will probably play hands fairly face up
Hero- $520 - TAG
OTTH
V1 opens EP to $10, 1 call, hero in CO with JT calls $10, V2 Sb reraises to $25, V1 calls, Mp calls, Hero calls. The reraise screams strength imo here even though its small as 3bs are rare in this game, especially from this particular player.

Flop ($102) - TT5
V2 goes $50, V1 jams all-in for remaining $250, Mp folds, Hero ??

Its so obvious V2 has JJ+ but V1????/
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:31 AM   #2
johnnyBuz
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

Uhh - jam?
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Old 07-16-2017, 02:07 AM   #3
ChrisV
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

I'm not going to play guessing games here. V1 could have a flush draw, or have decided 99 is good here, or have T9s or T8s, or whatever. Just stick it in and hope for the best.
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Old 07-16-2017, 05:14 AM   #4
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

If you lose to a better hand on the flop, it's just a cooler. Sucks if he has the case and has like AT but that's just how it goes.
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:15 AM   #5
BadlyBeaten
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

It seems reasonable to believe that she has four tits and he has the AK of hearts, giving you 70% equity. So the only question is whether there are enough other variations to make folding reasonable.

Descriptions suggest he does not open with ATo and maybe not call the 3-bet with ATs. So that leaves 55, possibly JT of spades or QT of spades. Of course, she could have 3-bet with AT of spades.

I don't think it's a trivial call, but I think you're leaving a lot of value behind in the long run if you give up in these kinds of spots. If we modify the HH some way that all the cards are out and you only have the trips, then maybe a fold.

Even if they have exactly AQ hearts and AT spades, you still have 21.5% equity. So I don't think letting go in this spot is a very good play.

Last edited by BadlyBeaten; 07-16-2017 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:47 AM   #6
Joey913
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

Yeah as others have said this isn't a WTF spot, it's a get your chips in the middle without question spot. Flush draws, worse T's, Big PPs.

Given that he opened in early position and is straightforward, I would actually lean toward thinking this is an AA/KK type of hand where he thought if he 4! pre everyone would have folded.
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Old 07-16-2017, 11:49 AM   #7
momo_uk
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

Honestly not comfortable with the J kicker.
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:08 PM   #8
DormantShark
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

Agree that 3!er has an overpair. If V1 shows up with a better ten, gh (but you also have 3 outs to win and 3 to chop ott, with likely 3 to win and 6 to chop otr).

When you consider he could have big hearts, some big pairs, and some weaker Ts (specifically T9), you can't fold this.
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:56 PM   #9
jeldredge33
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

I just don't believe villain1 is jamming the heart draw on the paired board with two players left to act. I think he'd just flat when the woman clearly has the overpair and may not fold. Villain1 would definitely raise $10 pre and call tiny 3b with AT, KT suited, QT suited, JT suited, 9T suited, never shows up with like 8T o here, obviously has 55
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Old 07-16-2017, 02:04 PM   #10
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

I think this is an easy call.

He isnt shoving 55 presumably because there is no reason to announce strength when he is not afraid of hearts. I think hearts and, given the action, pairs make up a lot of his range.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:02 AM   #11
BackDoorFlush
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

Folding would be ridiculous.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:17 AM   #12
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

I don't think it's as cut and dry as everybody else.

What are really beating here? Two big overpairs. That's it.

I don't think V1 plays AhQh type hands this way. I think there are a lot of AT and 55 in his range. Is there really a T9 in his range? Is a "been playing solid, nothing out of line for 4 hours thus far" type of guy opening from EP w/ T9? Is he jamming a flush draw on a paired board?

I wouldn't fault a call here considering V1 may overvalue her AA/KK and come along, but I think I find a fold.
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:47 AM   #13
hfrog355
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

ITT people want to fold trips in a 3b pot.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:03 PM   #14
wj94
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

I think this is more of a "WTF are these idiots doing" spot where you can't get your chips in fast enough, but have to play it coooooooooool like you have an actual decision to make so the person with an overpair calls too.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:06 PM   #15
Dizzyqtp
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

get it in
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:11 PM   #16
BadlyBeaten
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by hfrog355 View Post
ITT people want to fold trips in a 3b pot.
Peeps are suggesting a fold because they can't believe he would do this with a worse hand than JTs. My question is why would he do this with a better hand? Why would he do this with the nuts and risk everyone else finding the fold button? He gets paid practically nada.

Do we just assume the guy is spazzing and ignore his action? I.e. proceed w/o a read.

Last edited by BadlyBeaten; 07-17-2017 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:12 PM   #17
wj94
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadlyBeaten View Post
Peeps are suggesting a fold because they can't believe he would do this with a worse hand than JTs. My question is why would he do this with a better hand? Why would he do this with the nuts and risk everyone else finding the fold button?
Because people don't fold overpairs in 3b pots even when they know they are beat.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:20 PM   #18
BadlyBeaten
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

So your solution is he has trips and he's charging a flush draw behind.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:23 PM   #19
wj94
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadlyBeaten View Post
So your solution is he has trips and he's charging a flush draw behind.
If I had Tx and Vs range is almost entirely overpairs that are unlikely to fold, of course I would raise. I'm not saying the other V has Tx. I'm just saying that it's a value raise if they do so seems fine to me...folding trips in any 3b pot is generally going to be a terrible, terrible idea. Sometimes you just gotta lose that money.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:23 PM   #20
sauhund
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94 View Post
I think this is more of a "WTF are these idiots doing" spot where you can't get your chips in fast enough, but have to play it coooooooooool like you have an actual decision to make so the person with an overpair calls too.
hehehe
nice1
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:32 PM   #21
BadlyBeaten
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Re: WTF spot on flop with JTdd - $1/2 NL

Possibility that he's bluffing with JJ?
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