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Old 05-25-2012, 12:11 PM   #1
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When to just flat with AA preflop?

So an interesting spot came up the other day where I have AA and if I re-raise raise I know everyone will fold and I will just win the preflop bets, but if I flat call I will have to play a pot 3-handed oop...

New table opened 1 hour ago, I have been completely card dead and I don't think I've played a hand yet. I am viewed as a absolute NIT, but I just haven't had a hand/situation to play yet.

Villain is a solid LAG player, he is definitely capable of crushing the game, but he just likes to outplay people too much and thats his downfall, a little too aggressive. So far he has either raised or 3-bet when he is on the button every single time, and everyone just folds to him.

Effective Stacks: $200

Preflop: MP opens for $10, Villain on BTN re-raises to $30, Hero in SB looks at AA...?

Again, I am reading the opening bettor as weak, and I know the villain doesn;t have anything here, If i 4-bet to any amount they will both insta-fold, If I flat call, the oping bettor will think he's priced in and I will have to play a pot 3 handed oop...

So what do you guys do in this spot, and when is it right to just flat with AA preflop?
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:16 PM   #2
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Re: When to just flat with AA preflop?

The ONLY hand I trap with is AA

never trap with kk qq jj ak bc u can be outflopped easily

if the stacks are shallow enough like they are u probably can stack off no matter what the flop is unless its like 10 j q monotone and u dont have the ace

deeper than 100bb u cant really afford to flat

but given the stack sizes u probably wont dump the aces anyway

given the situation i guess you could flat and just check jam any flop

however being OOP a raise is the correct play, i would wait for a better spot to do this with AA for instance is LAG in co open raises to 17 and u can fat OTB sure it will be heads up

a couple of months ago i stacked an old man by flatting his open to 15 in CO and i flat OTB

unlucky bpth the blinds called but i just raised all in after old man bombed a j high flop and then called my all in with KJo lololo

in a nutshell i would only trap if i know its heads up, which in this situation its not
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:21 PM   #3
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Re: When to just flat with AA preflop?

Not in this spot, raise to 75 and hope one of them ships on you
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:24 PM   #4
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Re: When to just flat with AA preflop?

I think I would be tempted to just flat and hope MP isn't weak and 4bets himself, but I'm not sure if that's right. It does suck being OOP and going 3way, but SPR will be like 2 so I'm pretty sure we can happily stack off postflop, but do we risk checking the flop to these guys? Ha, I probably flat, then check/shove flop, but that may be too FPS.

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Old 05-25-2012, 12:26 PM   #5
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Re: When to just flat with AA preflop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty313 View Post
The ONLY hand I trap with is AA

never trap with kk qq jj ak bc u can be outflopped easily


if the stacks are shallow enough like they are u probably can stack off no matter what the flop is unless its like 10 j q monotone and u dont have the ace

deeper than 100bb u cant really afford to flat

but given the stack sizes u probably wont dump the aces anyway

given the situation i guess you could flat and just check jam any flop

however being OOP a raise is the correct play, i would wait for a better spot to do this with AA for instance is LAG in co open raises to 17 and u can fat OTB sure it will be heads up

a couple of months ago i stacked an old man by flatting his open to 15 in CO and i flat OTB

unlucky bpth the blinds called but i just raised all in after old man bombed a j high flop and then called my all in with KJo lololo

in a nutshell i would only trap if i know its heads up, which in this situation its not
Its actually the other way around.

With AA its better to fast-play since you absolutely crush pretty much every single hand that will get it in against you pre-flop. Trapping with KK is fine.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:28 PM   #6
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Re: When to just flat with AA preflop?

in low stakes nl, you want to bet almost all of your made hands for value, no need to get fancy here.

Raise to 70 and shove flop. You'll be giving V a seemingly good price on seeing a flop where he's dominated and doesn't have the implied odds for a call. You raise to protect your hand but hoping he'll make the mistake and call.

I guess i could see a case where you're heads up against a lag villain and will be OOP post, where you could flat, then c/r his cbet to gain an extra bet. But watch out for FPS at 1/2nl.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:29 PM   #7
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Re: When to just flat with AA preflop?

This isn't the spot to slowplay AA. For one, unless he thinks you're a fish, flatting here isn't fooling anyone, they know you have a very big hand.

So you may as well re-open the action and try to get all-in pre before the board comes really bad and you lose action. Make it $60.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:37 PM   #8
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Re: When to just flat with AA preflop?

I will slowplay (sometimes) against maniacal guys in my game, who will open to like 110 in a 5/10 game with J3 suited.

I want them to stick around post flop, by 3betting I increase the likelihood that they make fewer mistakes.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:53 PM   #9
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Re: When to just flat with AA preflop?

meh, I've never flatted AA in my life. Probably never will...

I suppose I'd consider the flat if I were in position, trying to keep some whale in the hand.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:10 PM   #10
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Re: When to just flat with AA preflop?

^ try it sometime. It's not a terrible play... You can flat AA to:
- induce & re-squeeze squeezer
- deception against better players
- induce further mistakes post flop from "aggro-maniacs" when they are less likely to make as big a mistake pre
- project a weaker "percieved range" when playing against TAGish players who will 'barrel' into you if they are pre-flop aggressor.
- when deep its super deceptive... may put you into interesting spots post flop.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masaraksh View Post
^ try it sometime. It's not a terrible play... You can flat AA to:
- induce & re-squeeze squeezer
- deception against better players
- induce further mistakes post flop from "aggro-maniacs" when they are less likely to make as big a mistake pre
- project a weaker "percieved range" when playing against TAGish players who will 'barrel' into you if they are pre-flop aggressor.
- when deep its super deceptive... may put you into interesting spots post flop.
The problem I have with playing AA "deceptive" is hand ranges. For example in 2/2 people like to call with a lot of hands. Sc, suited 1 gappers, you name it they like it. Now if I just flat in position or even oop and the flop comes 567 I am absolutely clueless how to react vs aggression. If I lead out and they flat and the turn comes an 8,9 or 4. I check fold. And I beat on myself for not 4bettibg preflop.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:28 PM   #12
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Re: When to just flat with AA preflop?

If it was folded to him and he had raised the btn, i'd flat. - Considering the MP opener, I'd reraise here.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:29 PM   #13
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Re: When to just flat with AA preflop?

Sometimes one must fold Ace Ace post-flop.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Sometimes one must fold Ace Ace post-flop.
Of course but I hope you get my point.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:41 PM   #15
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Re: When to just flat with AA preflop?

When we "slowplay" we are balancing in the wrong direction, that is, playing our strong hands weak.

The way to properly balance at this table is to 3bet at a high enough frequency so that they stop viewing your 3bets as AA. Once every two orbits or so is enough.

However, there is only one time I ever slowplay...

There are certain breeds of aggro LLSNL Villains in which an overpair is the stone cold nuts and they will ship or call a ship for 200bb without even blinking. However, these same players will fold their TT-QQ pre to a strong 3bet or 4bet.

In 2/5nl, alot of times these players will raise IP to $45 - $65 with TT-QQ (yes, that is their opening raise) or 3bet +$100 to whatever the original raise was. In these cases when we are likely to be heads up, I will often flat with AA,KK because I know that if we get any lowball flop, they are overbetting (or shipping) pot and then if I c/r them they will auto ship...

But this is rarely the case for me. Typically, my image is such that my 3bets aren't automatically viewed as AA so 90% of the time, I can just 3bet and expect a call.
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