I notice I'm consistently cbetting and then giving up when called. I know there are two ways to counter this: not cbetting OR double barreling. But these issues with those are:

a) not cbetting - gives driver's seat to V and allows him to bluff turn often (which again means, I should be checking back my value hands sometimes to induce turn bets, but it seems, that kind of loses a lot of value when I flop big and also helps them to catch up on drawy boards).

b) double barreling - the games that I play in don't have deep enough stacks to let me double barrel without being pot committed.

It seemed like my win rate went up substantially when I stopped auto c-betting
Generally speaking, if you're against at least 3 other V's or the board is pretty wet, I have found your c-bets will almost never get through.

However, clearly I don't want to only cbet made hands, so to balance this my cbets generally consist of: made hands, hands that hit the flop in pretty much any way (pair, FD, SD), PPs with one over, overs into 3-handed pots, pretty much anything heads up, and lastly, super dry board textures where it's unlikely anyone is very strong (773 or something). Obviously, bet sizing is designed to be exploitative based on what I'm trying to accomplish. This has worked well for me: I still get action when I want it. My c-bets are less likely to get auto floated. I also like to pay attention to players who do c-bet for floating opportunities. I think it all balances out to be +EV.

^ I forgot to add, I'm mainly talking about HU. Which is the real issue here.

Talking of super dry boards like 773, I've found my Vs to be calling cbets with A6o in those spots. Basically, nobody believes cbets anymore.

If you're cbetting 100% of the time when heads up on the flop, you're cbetting too much. You should be somewhere around 60-70% (note that includes when you do have a hand). Avoid cbetting when the flop clearly misses your perceived range and it is wet.

What is your opening range like?

In a shortish game where a turn bet commits us i think our opening range needs to be fairly tight. Not saying this is the problem but your opening range does need to be solid enough to support a healthy Cbet frequency or you get to the turn with too much air in your range.

Btw op not a shameless plug or anything but there is a lot of discussion in the cbetting cotm thread from a few months ago (2nd to the last cotm I think).

^ I've actually read that cotm of the month.

I have a tight opening range so maybe I get "upset" when I'm unable to win each one/most of them. Like if I'm opening 88, and the board brings a high card, it feels like they always c/c and then drive me off the hand later. And the times I call, they show that high card for a better pair. Similar story with AK/AQ, where if I whiff, they never fold their bottom pairs.

How does one really define a random's perceived range? Am I cbetting 337r because my perceived range is an overpair, or am I not cbetting 337r because my perceived range is overcards? How about J52ss?

This is certainly an issue with triple barreling, but I don't see the problem with double barreling.

Okay.. just another example from a hand I just played at 2/5 and avoided cbetting...

5-handed, $170 effective

UTG+1 ($330) min-raises to $10,
SB ($170) calls,
Hero ($600) in BB raises to $40 with JJ
SB calls

Flop ($90): Q T 2
V checks, Hero checks

Turn ($90): 6
V shoves for $130, Hero folds

I would call that turn probably

Even though the first raise was a min raise, you 3 bet preflop. A lot people assume that's AA/KK so if you are talking about "perceived ranges" I would say your perceived range is an overpair. Once you checked the flop your perceived range is now AK and just about AK only (to most people). I would call that turn shove.

A few things, some of which you've already noted.

1. Don't cbet as often when there is no good turn card (over to flop, BDSD,BDFD etc.)
2. Double barrel more. This is a continuation of point 1.
3. Check some of your value hands against players who notice.
4. One thing I've not seen yet here is position. Cbetting works a lot better in position.

What if you had made it $55? Pot would be $120 and he'd have $120 back and then you wouldn'thave to worry about it because you'd be shoving everything but maybe AKQ flop.

Are you having trouble with 3b cbets or cbets after a single raise? There should usually be plenty of room to maneuver after a normal raise. If stacks are so short that's not true, you should be reverting to a short stack strategy, which doesn't feature much in the way of cbets. You're getting all-in either pre or on the flop, generally with a strong hand and occasionally as a bluff.

As you point out, after a preflop 3b, stacks are often close to or past the commitment point. Your "cbet" will sometimes be a shove, either with a great hand or as a bluff. That's something to consider before making the 3b, though I get that sometimes you'll be targeting the deep stack and instead get the short stack.

In the HH you give against an unknown, I shove. There aren't that many combos that beat you, but quite a few draws that might decide they're committed. Checking back allows V to put you in a tough position on many turn cards. It's not a wonderful spot, but I think you're reluctantly committed here. V's tendencies matter a lot. If he's very passive, I could find a check back and fold. If he's bluffy, I like a check and call. If he'll play his hand face up, you could even bet/fold the flop, though obviously only against V's you have great read on.

As noted above ~70% is a good starting point for cbetting. You should cbet more often the stronger your starting range. If you raised only AA, you would cbet nearly all the time. Conversely if you raise ATC, there will be few legitimate cbets.

If V plays fit/fold after the flop, cbet nearly 100% until they adjust. Avoid cbetting only flops that smash a calling range and leave water stains on the table.

If V floats the flop light but then plays fit/fold on the turn, that's even better. Cbet nearly all flops and then take it away on the turn. Re-evaluate their hand strength once they've failed to fold at the appropriate time.

If V calls light but is passive, vbet them mercilessly, but reduce the frequency of your bluff cbets greatly. If the table is like this, tighten your PFR range.

If V calls light but is aggressive, check back most hands, made or not. Call them down with made hands, give up without a hand. Also tighten up your preflop raising range. Sometimes raise as a bluff and with some good hands for balance.

Against V's that exploit your cbetting profile, it may feel like you're surrendering some value by mixing your hand ranges. But adjusting doesn't actually surrender value. It recovers some of the value you've already surrendered by being exploitable.

To restate some more obvious points...

Cbet more often on boards that hit a generally accepted raising range (boards that have big cards), less often with mid-range cards that are more likely to hit a generally accepted calling range.

Cbet more often on dry boards, less often on wet boards.

Tend to cbet somewhat larger against wetter flops, smaller against drier ones. On a dry flop, a smaller cbet is about as likely to succeed as a larger one. On a wet flop, there are more likely to be marginal draws that will fold to a larger cbet but call a smaller one.

Cbet less often with more players. My starting point for HU against an unknown is nearly 100%. I rarely cbet 3+ unknowns without a hand. Against 2 V's it'll depend heavily on my image and board texture.

Cbet more often if you're perceived as tight, less if you're perceived as wild.

Even against someone that won't peel the flop light, look for double barrel opportunities when the turn card is scary (especially Q - A, which will hit the generally perceived preflop raising range). Cards that brick obvious draws can also be good scare cards.

Adjust, adjust, adjust. Figure out your opponents tendencies and then play to exploit them. This has the side benefit of inherently mixing up your play. Against V1 you're wild, bluffing with nearly ATC. Against V2, you're a rock. Go ahead, let V3 figure out your "style".

I found Ed Miller's How to Read Hands at No-Limit Hold'Em incredibly useful.

773r board is one I'm fully prepared to double barrel with high frequency.
Paired board in position are great Double Barrel boards

Delayed c-bet in position. You must be playing with some sticky players that you should be value towning very often if they are truly that sticky.
Mix in a delayed c-bet raise on the turn if led into by an aggressive player.

All tables have their own dynamic. You need to identify the sticky ones and the super straight forward ones.

The c-betting COTM that you referenced is good stuff. Go through that check list before firing a bet.

I have to admit, I'm pretty much a one-and-done guy myself, and there are times when I see the flop caller to my cbet turn over 5th pair on the river that I've checked back and I feel I coulda won the pot.

But I don't worry about it too much. Often times my free check back on the turn allows me to hit my value card, which I can then get paid off on the river. Or my turn check allows me to put in no money when crushed on the flop. Or my typical pot control of bet flop / check turn (or vice-versa) allows me to get paid off on the river when I have it.

Once in a blue moon the perfect turn card will come that makes double barrelling a good spot. But otherwise, meh, don't worry about it. The majority of the profit at this stakes is betting for value, so if you don't have a value hand, not betting it the majority of the time (especially against calling stations which this level is made up of) is probably the most profitable route.

ETA: Lottsa good nuggets in Case's post.

GimoG

I'm not sure this is a good example of the original topic. Here, Villain called off ~25% of his stack preflop; we're committed on this drawy board with only one random overcard. If he has a Q, god bless him. Otherwise, we can easily get paid off by worse (draws, Tx, etc.). With these stacks, I'd shove the flop.

GcluelessNLnoobG

What would you say your C bet frequency is?

^ I'd like to believe it's 70-80%. Not easy to know live.

Case2, thanks for writing all that man!

Nice post Case. I think the above and position are the most important takeaways. I'm far less likely to cbet oop than ip, especially multiway.

You need to ask yourself why I am betting.

Is it for Value, protection, semi bluff etc

If you just cbet to keep the iniative then it won't work.

In the JJ hand I would've re-raised to $50 and shipped flop but that's a bad example due to the short stack.

A better hand example is 99 on Q74.

In this case I would cbet to get hands like AJ, AT, KJ, JT etc to fold as they have good equity against your hand and can outdraw you.

This would be a one and done but against some opponents the turn can be a c/c and not a c/f. That's Villian dependent.

For barreling say you open 8s7s and the flop is Js6c2d. This is a great to cbet as lots of over card hands will fold. Now you can barrel the turn on any A, K, Q, 9, 5 or spade.

If Villian has a hand like QJ, JT, TT, 99 it's hardfor him to call if you have a tight image. Again it's Villian dependent and against a loose passive who will call with 77 on an A turn then just check and try to hit on the river.

^ What % of pot do you recommend sizing the double barrel with 78ss?

Also, are you not thin value betting 99 OTT against loose passives and then checking back river?

Prob 2/3 pot size on the flop as it's pretty dry but depends on Villian as well.

Turn depends on what card comes. My cbet size ranges from 33-150% of the pot depending on a lot of factors, board texture, position, opponents etc

For the 99 hand you could bet the turn if is was a 6, 5, 3 , 2 against loose Passives that will call again with a 7 but if turn is say an ace I think loose passive would fold on the turn so I would prob c/f unless they bet really small as loose Passives are usually showdown happy.

At full ring?

I´m double barrelling my non showdownvalue hands a lot, pretty sure >50% of the time.

I prob double barrel 2/3rds of the time but my open range is tighter then most and I don't cbet as often as most people.

I would cbet about 50% oop and closer to 80% ip