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Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good?

02-20-2017 , 02:26 AM
2/5. Table just started so no reads.

UTG+1 ($370) limps, MP1 limps, CO limps. Hero looks at KQ in the SB and raises to $35. UTG+1 calls, everyone else folds.

Flop ($80) T85
Hero bets $45
Villain calls $45

Turn ($170)
J
Villain has $275 behind and I cover
Hero....

What's my plan for this and any future streets?

Last edited by Jewtalian; 02-20-2017 at 02:50 AM. Reason: Stack sizes
Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 02:39 AM
what are effective stacks?
Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 02:50 AM
Updated original post w stack sizes
Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 03:12 AM
You should not be opening this hand from the SB.

On the turn you need to barrel 125 and shut down if you get raised or don't improve on river .


Can also see just check folding this turn
Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 04:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPavelski
You should not be opening this hand from the SB.

On the turn you need to barrel 125 and shut down if you get raised or don't improve on river .


Can also see just check folding this turn
I think this is a fine hand to open for value from the sb facing 3 limps.
I think x/c flop would be better, it's a coordinated board anything your opponent continues with is beating you, and anything he folds is worse. X/c flop and play across some turns as there are plenty that help you pick up sdv/equity
Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 04:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtol
I think this is a fine hand to open for value from the sb facing 3 limps.
I think x/c flop would be better, it's a coordinated board anything your opponent continues with is beating you, and anything he folds is worse. X/c flop and play across some turns as there are plenty that help you pick up sdv/equity
Completely disagree with opening KQo. Hand is way too weak out of position . KQss much better argument for but even then I'm still just limping the SB.

If you opened KQo from BTN I'm all for it but you're gonna get called and your hand isnt very good
Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 04:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtol
I think this is a fine hand to open for value from the sb facing 3 limps.
I think x/c flop would be better, it's a coordinated board anything your opponent continues with is beating you, and anything he folds is worse. X/c flop and play across some turns as there are plenty that help you pick up sdv/equity

So your plan is to check call flop , check call Turn ??? Bro I'm sorry but that is horrible . You have K high .
Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 05:02 AM
Readless at a fresh table and playing from the SB, I'm mostly just completing here. I don't hate a raise, it can just put us in some tough spots postflop if we're called by the wrong type of V (which we have no idea since we're at a fresh table). From the BTN, I'm raising all day long.

OTF I don't mind a c-bet since you raised. This board should hit your Vs range harder than yours, but it's not the worst board to c-bet heads up. If I check flop, then it's to c/f. I'm not going for the OOP float here. Personally I'd just give up and go into c/f mode with hopes that he checks back.

OTT, I think you just have to keep barreling now. We've picked up enough equity to where I wouldn't just want to fold, but at the same time I hate the idea of c/c and just trying to bink river. Betting something around $100 here. Just know that you're going to have very little FE OTR if he calls your turn bet, so you'll probably be forced to give up unimproved.

All in all I just don't love any of our options here, and I think that goes back to raising KQ from the SB and then c-betting when we miss when stacks aren't very deep.
Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 05:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPavelski
You should not be opening this hand from the SB.

On the turn you need to barrel 125 and shut down if you get raised or don't improve on river .
This is the final word on this hand, both pre and on the turn.
Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 09:34 AM
I like xc and donk bluffing some rivers we miss if it checks through that's fine
Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 09:47 AM
Kindly inform the dealer you would like to wager all of your betting units.
Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 12:54 PM
Definitely opening Sb with KQ.

Flop is okay. Reads on his limp calling range would help.

But probably cbet (like your sizing) in this heads up pot. Expect to get called alot.

Turn is a gin card. Stack size is awkward. Alot because we opened to 7x. (Which I don't like being OOP).

Think we just stick it in on turn. Should have alot of Fold equity vs a wide range our opponent still has.

Plus we have massive amounts of equity.

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Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keaton
This is the final word on this hand, both pre and on the turn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPavelski
So your plan is to check call flop , check call Turn ??? Bro I'm sorry but that is horrible . You have K high .
If your not opening KQO in this spot. All decent players are going to exploit your opening range.

KQ is plenty strong to open. And plays fairly easily postflop less than 80BB deep

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Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPavelski
So your plan is to check call flop , check call Turn ??? Bro I'm sorry but that is horrible . You have K high .
If you're betting this flop with any overcards, all your straight draws and anything else that missed you are going to bluffing WAY too much.

Plan is x/c flop with decent equity x/f turn on a blank or on a turn like this c/r put him in a tough spot with his top pair/draws etc
Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtol
If you're betting this flop with any overcards, all your straight draws and anything else that missed you are going to bluffing WAY too much.

Plan is x/c flop with decent equity x/f turn on a blank or on a turn like this c/r put him in a tough spot with his top pair/draws etc
Our small blind opening range is pretty small. We don't have to worry about overbluffing HU here imo. Think we actually need some KQ type hands to bet here so we aren't underbluffing. Plus we have a lot of turns we can barrel with this specific hand and flop.
Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 06:33 PM
All in
Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikko
If your not opening KQO in this spot. All decent players are going to exploit your opening range.

KQ is plenty strong to open. And plays fairly easily postflop less than 80BB deep

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Opening in the blinds with KQo for 7x, which amounts to about 10% of our entire stack, is atrocious. Now we are out of position and barreling away on a wet flop with K high for another 10% of our stack...again not good.

KQo on the button is a raise. KQo in the SB, where we are assured to play a mediocre hand OOP the entire way, is a losing move in the long run, ainec.
Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keaton
Opening in the blinds with KQo for 7x, which amounts to about 10% of our entire stack, is atrocious. Now we are out of position and barreling away on a wet flop with K high for another 10% of our stack...again not good.

KQo on the button is a raise. KQo in the SB, where we are assured to play a mediocre hand OOP the entire way, is a losing move in the long run, ainec.
7x, I don't like.

But if I am suppose to just take your word for it. Or need more evidence to be cured of my huge leak.

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02-20-2017 , 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikko
7x, I don't like.

But if I am suppose to just take your word for it. Or need more evidence to be cured of my huge leak.

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It really comes down to position and how important you believe it to be to winning poker.
Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikko
7x, I don't like.

But if I am suppose to just take your word for it. Or need more evidence to be cured of my huge leak.

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Don't like 7x?? Any less with 3 limpers is brutal !

Bro keep opening KQo from the small blind into 3 limpers lmao. It's not close whatsoever and this conversation is over
Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPavelski
Don't like 7x?? Any less with 3 limpers is brutal !

Bro keep opening KQo from the small blind into 3 limpers . It's not close whatsoever and this conversation is over
Why is that?

Raising into 3 limpers with AK okay?

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02-20-2017 , 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikko
Why is that?

Raising into 3 limpers with AK okay?

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AK vs KQ. Really ??

And I'm mucking KQo first to act UtG. Sure as hell not opening it from out of poaition into 3 people that already put chips in the pot
Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 10:24 PM
Nits ITT. Would probably make it $40 from the SB

Hand is WP. Fire turn $100.
Turned so Many Outs, Now What and Are They Good? Quote
02-20-2017 , 10:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPavelski
AK vs KQ. Really ??

And I'm mucking KQo first to act UtG. Sure as hell not opening it from out of poaition into 3 people that already put chips in the pot
Yes, In limped pot. They play very similarly. As it is very unlikely guys are limping hands that dominate us.

Both very profitable and fairly easy to play post.

Going mutli-way in limped pot. Is less advantages than going mutli-way in raised pot.

Also possibility we win pot pre. Or narrow field to 1 player. Giving us easier path to scoop pot postflop.

Limping a Top 10% hand and saying it is the only logical chioce. Is far fetched and closed minded. And the best players in world seem to agree with me.







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02-20-2017 , 10:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr
Nits ITT. Would probably make it $40 from the SB

Hand is WP. Fire turn $100.
Bad nits at that.

Stack is awkward for large sizings. Large sizings not needed.

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