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TT overpair TT overpair

02-02-2016 , 08:15 PM
$2/$5 live.

V1 ($1400) is an aggressive female donk who doubled up by calling a raise with J6s, calling the flop bet on a QJ3 flop and then shoving the 6 turn. Later she straddled and raised to $75 after a couple limpers with 44 and hit a set and won a big pot. She is not afraid to throw chips into the pot. I took a big pot off of her with AQ on a KT4Jx board after checking behind on the flop and potting the turn and river. She had Jx.

V2 ($175) is a short stacker. Enough said.

I have $750 and raise to $25 in MP with TT. V2 calls. V1 calls in the BB.

Pot $80. Flop 322 rainbow. V1 checks. I bet $65. V2 shoves in for $150 total. Im ready to snap call and then V1 reraises to $400. Shove or fold?
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02-02-2016 , 08:34 PM
From your history she has only been aggressive post flop with good hands, and been passively calling with bad made hands. Because she is so wide pre she probably has a lot more 2s in her range than normal players would. I think I let this go, and just take a note if she shows up with some garbage here.

Sucks if she showed a worse pocket pair here but I think we can wait for better spots with more info 150bb deep. The 44 hand also gives some reason to believe she might have raised hands like 77-99 pre.
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02-02-2016 , 08:52 PM
Yikes. Has she c/r before? Based on your description, she's only bet with two pair+ and called down with mid pair. She might not bluff a lot even though she fits the profile. If she does this with any overpair, you beat 36 combos and lose to 24. She must have some 2x and 3x in her range because she calls with garbage. I would think she calls with most mid overpairs and only check-reraises premiums and 2x.

Absent more information about her, I let this go and wait for a better spot. The live read is so critical.
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02-02-2016 , 09:20 PM
Im just not folding a hand this strong vs a female poor player who has showed evidence of being reckless, certainly not for 150 bb's. I just so often see players of this ilk do preposterous things with such frequency. Most times i observe it with the logical reason discussed in above posts, then am shocked when i see what the morons actually show up with. Because of this, in soft live games i usually am looking to find hero calls a lot more often than hero folds. As far as the nuts and bolts, our hand is way too strong to fold without having a very strong read. These opportunities are just too hard to come by IMO. Also, even though this villian is deemed a rather weak player...we can safely rule out a decent amount of 2's (27-2Jo). Not to mention the fact that most fish are just going to flat a 2 here to slowplay and keep us in the hand. Im not loving a shove here, but i do like it a tad better than folding.
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02-02-2016 , 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSell11
Im just not folding a hand this strong vs a female poor player who has showed evidence of being reckless, certainly not for 150 bb's. I just so often see players of this ilk do preposterous things with such frequency. Most times i observe it with the logical reason discussed in above posts, then am shocked when i see what the morons actually show up with. Because of this, in soft live games i usually am looking to find hero calls a lot more often than hero folds. As far as the nuts and bolts, our hand is way too strong to fold without having a very strong read. These opportunities are just too hard to come by IMO. Also, even though this villian is deemed a rather weak player...we can safely rule out a decent amount of 2's (27-2Jo). Not to mention the fact that most fish are just going to flat a 2 here to slowplay and keep us in the hand. Im not loving a shove here, but i do like it a tad better than folding.
If Im calling, I might as well shove. The pot will be over $1000. If I call its going in on the turn anyway.
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02-02-2016 , 09:52 PM
I'd probably exploitably fold my entire range here except A2s/33/22 if we have them (I don't play them this way). She can have tons of 2x as described and has to be ahead of at least V2. It's possible she is isolating the short stack with a weaker PP than ours but I wouldn't give a bad player credit for a play like that until I see it. A flop 3! on a paired board with money behind is basically always trips or better. Easy fold.

I would get on her direct left if possible.
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02-02-2016 , 09:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSell11
most fish are just going to flat a 2 here to slowplay and keep us in the hand.
I would definitely not re-pop it to $400 with 2x in V's shoes either and scare away Hero's overpairs. Why do you think only fishes would do that?
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02-02-2016 , 10:02 PM
That's what i advocated. Its a fold or a shove. It's never a call because villain never has a bluff where your trying to keep dead money in pot. Doubt it would ever happen, but you also wouldn't want a scare card like a king or ace coming on turn and getting a hand you beat to fold for the last $250. The more i think of this hand, the more i wonder what the odds are that villian slowplayed KK or AA pre and is actually making a decent play in this hand...is this at all reasonable by your estimation OP?
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02-02-2016 , 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6betfold
I would definitely not re-pop it to $400 with 2x in V's shoes either and scare away Hero's overpairs. Why do you think only fishes would do that?
Sorry, i did not mean to imply that flatting here with a 2 is the wrong play just because i assume a fish would do it. I suppose a better way to put it is that flatting here is easily the right play, and one that a fish would not only know to do, but is more likely to just because of the natural tendency for fish to generally want to slowplay most strong hands.
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02-02-2016 , 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSell11
That's what i advocated. Its a fold or a shove. It's never a call because villain never has a bluff where your trying to keep dead money in pot. Doubt it would ever happen, but you also wouldn't want a scare card like a king or ace coming on turn and getting a hand you beat to fold for the last $250. The more i think of this hand, the more i wonder what the odds are that villian slowplayed KK or AA pre and is actually making a decent play in this hand...is this at all reasonable by your estimation OP?
I only played with her for an hour so I really have no idea. I do think that this would be an acceptable time for someone to flat call with AA/KK preflop since she knows its going to be only 3 way to the flop and one will be short stacked so getting out flopped by slowplaying isnt the end of the world.
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02-02-2016 , 11:10 PM
Really close one IMO. Don't think either shove or fold would be much different in EV

I'd prob call as she has lots of smaller over pairs and I would expect a re-raise with QQ+

I think it's more likely she has a 2 then a higher over pair.
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02-02-2016 , 11:13 PM
QQ makes a lot of sense as well. Wants to keep hand strength masked and see a safe flop, probably feels like 3 betting QQ pre is over repping her hand. Starting to find a fold here with JJ-AA being alot more of a possibility. However, if this is a savvy played AA-KK...i still love them flatting the 150 shove instead of raising to 400.
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02-03-2016 , 01:40 AM
there's very few people who this would be a shove against, but i do know the type. it has to be the type of player that when you see sit them down at another table, you ask yourself, "do i feel like gambling today" and decide whether or not to transfer
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