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Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

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Old 06-23-2012, 01:05 PM   #16
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Re: Stupid 3-5 spot.

saying raise pre is better than limp is just LOL
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:22 PM   #17
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Re: Stupid 3-5 spot.

Quote:
For instance, you limp 76cc vs 4 villains

Flop (5bb) 7h Tc 2s
V bets 3bb, 2 calls, 1 fold hero?... Calls
Turn (14bb) Qc
V bets 9bb, 1 fold, V2 raises to 20bb, hero?

More often than nought, you get put in marginal spots where you just bleed chips which is why its a fold pre.
Why would you call that flop??
Maybe that's why you lose money with 67s on button with 3 limpers..
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:28 PM   #18
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Re: Stupid 3-5 spot.

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Originally Posted by silversunn View Post
I find it extremely hard to believe we would lose money in the long term by limping 67s on the button 60bb deep with 3 limpers
Of course you do. It's because you are a donk. Donks have all sorts of leaks that they aren't even aware of. Since they do it they assume it's correct. We've explained why and even offered some examples and basic logical deductions and You still refuse to believe it. Which is great for the 2+2ers who you don't know about who are at your table.

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Originally Posted by silversunn View Post
saying raise pre is better than limp is just LOL
the fact that you think limping is better than raising on the button belays your ignorance.

If given a choice in your spot between limping here or raising its a clear raise. Any decent winning player would agree.

Fold > raise > limp

Google "raise + cbet" or search 2+2 threads for cbetting so you understand why and how cbetting is very profitable...
Quote:
Originally Posted by silversunn View Post
Why would you call that flop??
Maybe that's why you lose money with 67s on button with 3 limpers..
I'm trying to decide if you are just trolling or if you are serious. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since 2+2 is about learning and helping others who wish to become better.

Do you understand equity and ranging? On the flop we are getting 4.7:1 on our money. We need 17.8% equity in order to call and mid pair gives us that. Plus we have position and enough chips to generate fold equity on the turn in the event that players show weakness on the turn.

For example, let's say on the turn V bets 5bb instead of 9bb and other V just calls, then we'd be correct in raising 20bb as a semibluff (hence why position and image is important) and given our equity our semibluff would have to work less than 25% of the time to be profitable.

And if we are called and brick river, we have enough chips to generate fold equity w an all-in shove.

So my young Padawan, as Yoda would say, "much to learn you still have..."

Last edited by dgiharris; 06-23-2012 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:38 PM   #19
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Re: Stupid 3-5 spot.

Can you explain how limping 76o 60bb deep is ever good?

I actually would also prefer a raise with 76s, although if for some reason you think an idiot is limping a huge pair that they won't fold then by all means limp away.

It's just a tough balance between IO and RIO with your stack size, you're rarely going to be able to get someone off TP with that stack. That's both a good and a bad thing, mostly bad since you will rarely actually flop gin.
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Old 06-23-2012, 02:27 PM   #20
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Re: Stupid 3-5 spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgiharris View Post
Don't limp button pre if short stacked. Fold pre.

As played, flop flat is fine, shove turn.

When you are short and pot committed then its an easy shove. Lots of hands we beat can call.

Or put another way, calling turn is incorrect and calling flop if you aren't willing to shove bricked turn is incorrect as well.

In any event, fold pre as played shove turn and read some threads/articles about short stack play
THIS

Quote:
Originally Posted by silversunn View Post
I find it extremely hard to believe we would lose money in the long term by limping 67s on the button 60bb deep with 3 limpers
Then I have some property to sell you...

Look at DGI's other post to explain what usually happens, and when you crush the flop and it comes 772, you typically win the limps and not much more OR someone has A7 and you go busto.
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Old 06-23-2012, 03:43 PM   #21
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Re: Stupid 3-5 spot.

is there a place where u can play 100 bigs in LA. these short games blow. i was playing 3-5 at the commerce dealt 510 in the button of course its limped. flop comes A 5 10 and i get stacked by ace 5 cuz stacks make it simple obv shoves
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Old 06-23-2012, 06:05 PM   #22
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Jesus christ you nits need to untuck your balls, put some hair on your chest, and straddle a few hands (only kidding, only kidding). This is live poker, not the internet.

Last edited by bigoiltrader; 06-23-2012 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 06-23-2012, 06:19 PM   #23
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Silversunn was spot on. Anything but a limp on the btn in this spot is incorrect (for a LIVE CASH GAME). Calling on the Tc7h2s board after a bet and two callers is rly bad.

If you get caught folding 76s on the btn pre, whales never gonna give you actn for the rest of your life.
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