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Old 05-31-2012, 09:17 PM   #1
grinder
 
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Shove or call?

1-2 NL

Villain (235) young 20s white male. Just began playing here at this room but has past experience. Played with maybe 4 hours on another night and he saw me run over a table. Seems to be a solid player, plays too many hands but doesnt get out of line. villain on 2nd buyin

Hero (245) 20s white male. Got involved in a 3 way all In on a 69KA board with AK and lost. Villain had set of 6s, he also lost to a set of 9s. Hero has built back 60 to 245 within 45 minutes.

PF: folds to hero in MP with AA, raises to $15. Folds to villain in BB who calls. Heads up to flop

FLOP: ($31) 57Qr - hero cbets $16 villain calls
TURN: ($63) 10x - hero bets $45 villain calls
RIVER: ($153) 3 - villain bets $65 hero...?
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:03 PM   #2
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Re: Shove or call?

Why were you playing with $60? Buy in full. Bet more on flop, maybe $20-24. Turn is ok. Call river.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:13 PM   #3
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Re: Shove or call?

Lost 3 way all in, got dealt KK with my wallet out and 3bet shoved KK and gotm2 callers as I tripled up.
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:13 PM   #4
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Re: Shove or call?

I bet low on flop because that's my typical cbet line as I found less variance when cbet ting with air.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:20 AM   #5
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Re: Shove or call?

I'd prob bet more on the flop, especially after the $15 PFR. Is that a normal amount to raise pre flop in that game? River call but not too happy with it. If this would be me in my 'normal' game villain will have me beat with set most of the times. Deff not shove, you will only be called by a winner I think?
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:44 AM   #6
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Re: Shove or call?

Hard to know what he does this with without reads. Guess that means we're good more than the 30% we need to make to call.

Not a fan of guaranteed value-owning ourselves with a shove for a non-guaranteed chance at value vs top pair
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:48 AM   #7
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Re: Shove or call?

In germs of reads I've seen him flat sets on flops but never for 2 steets. 357 are not in his range other than sets which he would have raised the turn. 10Q scares me as bet he made to induce a shove but this but this really felt like a blocker bet to see a cheaper showdown but the only hand I beat.that calls a raise is AQ.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:52 AM   #8
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Re: Shove or call?

meh prob just calling there myself maybe Im missing some value here, but usually bets like this are something like AQ,KQ or something like that that doesn't want to c/c OTR but are folding to a shove. since you dont give any reads on his river betting tendencies prob just calling here, you may be behind some of the time here too but not often enough to fold I would say.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:56 AM   #9
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Re: Shove or call?

just call, don't over think it
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:08 AM   #10
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Re: Shove or call?

Calling is fine, bet more on the flop to show you mean business.

On this board two pair is a possibility or a set.

Seems like a slow played set from here.
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:38 AM   #11
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Shove would be turning your hand into a bluff- I call. If I thought I was usually good I might minraise.
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:30 AM   #12
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Re: Shove or call?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PairPressure View Post
On this board two pair is a possibility or a set.

Seems like a slow played set from here.
Disagree- feels more like either a blocker bet (although, given stacks, maybe a little too big?) or Q-T/ A-Q. Pretty sure any sensible V would have raised his set earlier, unless it's 333, which shouldn't be at the river.

I don't particularly like a shove as played- a raise, yes, but a shove probably narrows you down to A-Q or air.

Call, but mostly for information- I'm comfortable that we're not winning this hand.
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:07 PM   #13
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Re: Shove or call?

If he plays a lot of hands as you said, looks like you should make a crying call to see his 46s str8. A solid player rarely would flat turn oop with QT as there are many scary rivers for your range (5s, 7s & jacks).
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:21 PM   #14
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Re: Shove or call?

seems like a small bet to set his own price for the showdown.
sometimes he is having a set or QT here but i see him making that play with AQ,KQ,QJ, and lower Q which are suited - maybe even pockets like JJ,99 who think they have showdown value against a hand like AK.
but i would never push that hand on the river - only two pair+ would call you (maybe AQ sometimes) but i dont think it is worth the risk.
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:27 PM   #15
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Re: Shove or call?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingSnyder View Post
just call, don't over think it
+1
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