Hero is in mid 20's, been playing for about 1.5 hours. Over-limped in to a few pots and only raised 1 hand so far, took down on Axx board with airball (KJo) c-bet with same villain and 1 other in pot. Didn't show.

Villain - in 50s or 60s, wife was at the casino with him. Didn't have much for reads on him and hadn't seen him show anything down yet. Saw him limp in to a few pots but that doesn't mean much at 1/2 live...

Can't remember my exact position, pick up KQo in LP and raise it to $8 with a few limpers in front. Everyone behind folds and pick up 3 callers including villain in BB.

About $32 in the pot going to the flop.

Flop Q8T rainbow (1 Heart)

Villain donks in to me for $20 and everyone else folds. Hero calls.

Turn Kh

Villain continues his aggression and bets $60 in to a pot of ~$72. Hero shoves (started the hand with $200, villain has hero covered)

$8 is too small over limpers. In most live 1/2 games, 4xBB plus one per limper is pretty much a minimum raise if you are looking to go less than four ways. $8 is the worst of both worlds, because it leaves hands like J9 in, but makes SPR short enough that it's hard to get away from TPGK+. I either overlinp here, or make it $14ish, with the bigger raise preferred.

As played, a late middle-aged man donks 2/3 pot into 3 players, including PFRer on a board that had to have hit someone. He has minimum 2pair here, and often sets that are afraid of SDs. he could also have flopped the joint and be afraid that it will check through, though most middle-aged men would c/r a straight here, imo. I just let it go.

AP to turn, your relative hand strength has not improved that much. The only hands in his range that was beating you that you now beat are AQ and QT. Your shove doesn't rep AJ well. Would you really have called the flop? Only hands you're really repping here are KK (but would anybody really have raised to only $8 with KK over limpers) and your actual holding. This allows him to play perfectly against you, by folding the hands you sucked out on and getting full value from his straights and sets. And before you say "yeah, but he doesn't know that," remember that all he really has to do is figure out that two hands are unlikely. Even MUBSy older men can do that sometimes.

100% agree with sizing PF.

As far as flop play is concerned, without more of a read, isn't it possible that he also has QJ & Q9 and even AQ here a lot? Middle-aged man at the casino with his wife doesn't scream "reg" to me it screams "rec". As in recreational player. Weekend trip etc etc. he came to PLAY so playing is what he is doing. Yes he donked into 3 including PFRer, maybe his thoughts were "I have top pair with a gutshot, maybe I can win right here, if not, I still have outs". I think we can raise here. We can probably get worse to call (QJ/Q9/JT/T9) and possibly better to fold sometimes (AQ only not his 2pr combos). Interested to hear your thoughts here Garick

Yeah the raise was definitely small. Normally I'd make it $10 here. I think in games where people are just as likely to call $14, as they are to call $10, it's more optimal to make the smaller raise... you get away cheaper when you miss and can't cbet profitably (or when you completely whiff and someone donks in to you, which seems to happen a ton in live games), but it's still easy to get the money in when you figure to be ahead of their range.

I've mainly played online up until now but looking to start playing live, as the games are so much softer. Using my same raise sizing from online in live seems to cause a lot of live players to spazz out and make big mistakes against me. Ex: in a .50/1 game recently I raised it to 3x or 4x UTG with KK and a guy min 3bet me with 77. In this particular extremely loose .50/1 game I am likely going to remove the +1 bb per limper in my raise sizes because if 1 calls it just starts a train no matter the raise size. Even with AA very multiway you will need to hit a set or better to figure to be ahead in this particular game.

With AJ I probably call flop and fold turn without improving facing the $60 bet, but on the turn in this particular hand, would have of course jammed.

At the time I played this hand I thought I made a good play, but I have been thinking about the hand a lot today and am having second thoughts about the turn jam, due to only really beating AQ,QJ,QT,Q8 and being way behind to sets/straights.

Luckily he was drawing to 2 outs with QT. After this hand I think this guy will be a lot easier to read & if in this same spot again top 2 is probably bottom of my value range vs him in this spot

No. Make it $15. This is assuming we are sitting on at least a full stack (100BB+)

Let me put it this way: why are you raising this hand pre-flop in the first place?

If you had something like pocket 8s, and simply wanted to build up a nice pot for your potential set, then I'd be okay with raising small to $10. But are you really looking to play a multi-way pot with KQo? You know that no one is limp/folding for $6 more...

Raising to $8 is equivalent to limping.

Raise to $15 and thin the field. The reason to raise PF is to thin the field, and go heads up, or 3-way. The fewer the players, the higher our skill edge is (we can win the pot WITHOUT the best hand, via aggression).

Of course, if you want to play limp / raise to $8 / lottery poker, go right ahead. This style can still be profitable. But you have to realize that you'll only be making money when you hit gin.

In this spot, you have failed to hit gin. You have top pair, on a scary board, and an older gentleman just donked into you. Fold.

I understand the logic of raising larger pre-flop to thin the field, ideally down to a heads up / 3-way situation, where c-betting the right boards can be profitable.

My opinion is that this reasoning works great at tables where the larger raise sizing thins the field to an opponent or two, but is horrible at extremely loose tables where you get the same number of calls even with the larger size.

I also think you have to take in to account there are probably diminishing returns the larger you make your raises with medium hands like KQ. If people are folding to your larger raises, that means when these particular players continue against you it's going to be with a stronger range and folding out the weaker range.

In the hand I posted with 3 callers, the SPR is like 3.2:1 ($15 raise) vs 4.8:1 with a smaller $10 raise. I much prefer the larger SPR because if I'm beat, I lose less when I have to fold, and the SPR is still low enough to get stacks in on the River if I figure to be ahead.

There is also a lot more room to maneuver post flop this way if you are drawing and think your opponent will pay you off if you call & hit or raise if you think he will fold.

I definitely think I made a big misstep here shoving the turn and lucked out to be ahead but given the table conditions think $8 pre was too small but $10 would've been fine. It was a great relief to be shown QT...