QQ and flop an Ace - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Live No-Limit Hold’em Cash

QQ and flop an Ace

Post Reply Subscribe

...

05-23-2016 , 08:29 AM

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

$2/$5

Its Sunday so there are lots of rec players and guys Ive never seen before.

Hero ($1500) opens UTG+1 to $20 with QcQs. V1 ($500) calls in the cutoff. V2 ($800) calls OTB.

V1 is a strong player that I have extensive history with.
V2 is unknown. He sat down 30 mins ago and seems to be unsure of himself.

Flop ($65) AcTc4d. Checks around

Turn ($65) 8s I check, V1 checks, V2 bets $40. I call. V1 folds.

River ($145) As. The fact that V2 didnt bet the flop last to act and there was a flush draw leads me to believe he doesnt have an ace. The river Ace makes it even more unlikely. Do you check/call here or lead out for value?

Quote

05-23-2016 , 08:35 AM

scrybe

adept

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 956

I am betting here because I expect JJ, Tx to check behind here a lot. I'm going around $120

Quote

05-23-2016 , 09:03 AM

jaymin

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 96

i like leading small for value OTR, something like 60-85. i think you're trying to get called by Tx and 8x mostly, many of which will check back on the river. but x/c river is certainly ok as well.

Quote

05-23-2016 , 09:11 AM

jake

adept

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 796

Agree A seems unlikely at this point. Wouldn't completely discount missed FD... but agree that pair <QQ seems most likely and a small lead is best (90ish)

Quote

05-23-2016 , 09:33 AM

Nice_Guy_Eddie

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,135

I'd bet-fold about $50. You almost never get raise-bluffed. $50 is small enough to get a call from worse, maybe Tx or JJ. You can safely fold to a raise, which almost certainly means Ax.

Quote

05-23-2016 , 10:02 AM

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,775

I'd go around $75. He might call more, but I doubt it. If he seems unsure of himself and doesn't have the A, I highly doubt he's putting much more in.

Quote

05-23-2016 , 02:13 PM

RAHZero

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 3,706

Bet the turn for value once the flop checks through. As played, bet/fold about half pot, mainly targeting Tx.

Quote

05-23-2016 , 07:20 PM

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

I led out $50 on the river and he folded.

Quote

05-23-2016 , 09:21 PM

dozer

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,549

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

I led out $50 on the river and he folded.

The fold tells me you weren't gonna get called, period. If that's the case then I would have bet more just so other opponents didn't get any kind of read on how I bet.

Quote

05-23-2016 , 09:42 PM

#10

scrybe

adept

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 956

Quote:

Originally Posted by dozer

The fold tells me you weren't gonna get called, period. If that's the case then I would have bet more just so other opponents didn't get any kind of read on how I bet.

If we knew for sure he wasn't calling anything we could check call then? But that's just purely hypothetical.

Quote

05-23-2016 , 11:19 PM

#11

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Quote:

Originally Posted by dozer

The fold tells me you weren't gonna get called, period. If that's the case then I would have bet more just so other opponents didn't get any kind of read on how I bet.

Well I didnt know he wasnt going to call anything until he folded. If he wouldve told me that ahead of time, maybe I wouldve bet more. How did the other players get a read on how I bet? It was kind of a weird line and they have no idea what I had.

Quote

05-24-2016 , 01:52 AM

#12

jaymin

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 96

Quote:

Originally Posted by dozer

The fold tells me you weren't gonna get called, period. If that's the case then I would have bet more just so other opponents didn't get any kind of read on how I bet.

i disagree. V can easily have 9j, qj, spade draws, and random air in addition to Tx and 8x. saying that we'll never get called here by worse is being results oriented

Quote

05-24-2016 , 07:04 AM

#13

johnny_on_the_spot

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 11,608

I might lead turn when it checks through OTF. Other than that, seems fairly standard. River bet seems good to get value from a lot worse.

Quote

05-24-2016 , 09:47 AM

#14

StackedYouSon

adept

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 741

Grunch

We gotta c/c here. By leading we're going to eliminate bluffs from his range or induce a raise from said range which I don't think we'd feel comfortable calling.

Quote

05-24-2016 , 09:51 AM

#15

moxiepilot

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 355

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

Grinch

Based on your question, I would lead out for value. But more importantly, I would have Cbet the flop.

Quote

05-24-2016 , 10:15 AM

#16

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Quote:

Originally Posted by moxiepilot

Grinch

Based on your question, I would lead out for value. But more importantly, I would have Cbet the flop.

I used to bet this flop most times but what do you do when he calls? Recently Ive changed my thinking that checking and going from there makes a little more sense against a lot of players....but I also check here with AK/AQ sometimes.

Quote

05-24-2016 , 11:16 AM

#17

dozer

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,549

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

I would have read it as you trying to value bet. I would have put you on a strong hand. In this case, it might have been an Ax, which, clearly, isn't correct but the principle is the same. Anyway, I would have remembered your betting pattern and compared it to other lines you had. I always like to try and stay consistent with my lines, but I'm a thinking 1/2 NL player. Maybe half of the players at your table were staring off into space and wouldn't have noticed what you did anyway.

Glad you won.

Quote

05-24-2016 , 11:21 AM

#18

moxiepilot

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 355

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

Throttle back.

I think of it this way, you're probably only going to get two streets of value out of this hand, which two streets is players choice. I like to know where I'm at earlier, so really it's just preference, but against an unknown you're not giving free cards early.

Quote

05-24-2016 , 11:22 AM

#19

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Quote:

Originally Posted by dozer

How are you going to remember my betting patterns when I sometimes bet and sometimes check AK and I sometimes bet and sometimes check QQ on a Axx flop?

If you stay consistent with your lines, YOU are the one who will have your betting patterns memorized.

Quote

05-24-2016 , 11:27 AM

#20

AllinPark

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 170

I'd bet turn 35-40,
Then 70-75 on the river.

Quote

05-24-2016 , 11:28 AM

#21

johnny_on_the_spot

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 11,608

If we have a flop checking range that includes Ax (whether that be AK or weak Ax) then checking flop is fine. It's actually better to have some check back top pair in our range so people can't just attack us OOP when we check flop.

If we're betting all flops, just because we want to "only get 2 streets of value" doesn't mean Vs will oblige when they are IP. We could bet flop and then either bet turn or check call turn and then we're sitting at the river with a pretty solid sized pot and we're OOP. If V bets, regardless of river, we basically have to fold or bluff catch, which kinda sucks.

Quote

05-24-2016 , 12:59 PM

#22

dozer

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,549

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

Fair point. I'd argue that if I keep the same lines with different hands I'm just as dangerous.

Quote

05-24-2016 , 04:15 PM

#23

PFunkaliscious

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 3,061

check call. V is on a draw far more times than he has a value hand. Only way to make money is to let him bluff at it, or lead super weak and be prepared to call a healthy raise.

Quote

Post Reply Subscribe

...