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Old 02-09-2012, 12:49 AM   #1
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QQ in BB Deep vs LAG & TAG

How poorly did I play this hand?

1-2 home game. Standard PF raise is 12. After a couple bust outs we are 6 handed.

V1 ($500) - TAG - One of the few players at the table who almost never limps in. True TAG. Busted on a couple of good river bluffs, but otherwise playing solid poker.

V2 ($800) - Certainly loose, selectively aggressive. Calls most flops regardless of betting. Calls most draws regardless of betting. Slams his flopped sets making for easy folds. Over-called in earlier hand vs tightest player at table who obviously flopped top 2 followed by an all-in from 2nd player, with a J high flush draw OTF. Called all in bet from tightest player on blank turn. Spiked his flush on the river for huge hand.

Hero ($400) Mostly TAG, mixing in some loose calling in late pos in multi-way pots with hands like connectors or suited As. Had huge hand early, then has had a quiet night. Best pkt pair I've seen is 55. No AK. Not even an AQ or AJ. Been raising limped/unopened pots from late pos with small-mid suited connectors, or hands like QT off and getting 3bet huge (too big to call with chosen hands) by V2, has happened 5 times or so in the last hour, and I'm getting tired of it. Previous hand called 3bet for first time planning to steal OTF, only to be re-raised on dry board, no choice but to fold. Hero is on mild tilt, and I'm planning on 4betting V2 at the next opportunity regardless of my cards to try and get him off my back.

V2 straddles for $4. 1 limper. V1 calls OTB. SB calls. Hero QQ raises to $16. V2 calls. Limper folds. V1 calls. SB calls.

Was really hoping for a straddle protecting re-raise from V2. No such luck.

Flop ($52) A63

SB checks. Hero bets $35. V1 calls. V2 calls. SB folds.

I obviously don't like that A, but I don't like going passive here first to act and telegraphing that I don't like that A. Decide to take a stab and see where I'm at. With 2 callers behind me, I don't like my chances and I'm ready to c/f the turn barring a Q.

Turn ($105) K

Hero check. V2 check. V1 bets $55. Hero reraises to $160. V2 calls. V1 folds.

I know what I said c/folding, but plans change. I decide I like this bet a lot. V2 looks weak, and V1's bet says to me "I have a weak A, I want to take this down from position." I decide I can abuse my image and get V1 out of the hand with a hefty reraise and bluff that I'm c/r'ing with AK or a set. I do not like V2 calling at all, but decide that I am shoving any non river.

River ($480) 7

Hero shoves. V2 calls, shows 45 for straight.
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Old 02-09-2012, 12:59 AM   #2
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Re: QQ in BB Deep vs LAG & TAG

You describe V2 as someone who calls no matter what the betting and then you try to raise him off his hand??? You let your annoyance cloud your judgment and it cost you a ton of $.
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Old 02-09-2012, 01:09 AM   #3
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Re: QQ in BB Deep vs LAG & TAG

raise bigger pre and check fold flop. If you are going to stab then stab once, dont check raise the turn. When you bet into two players and someone calls your flop bet (let alone 2 players that is much much worse) on an ace high board, continued bluffing is very rarely profitable. Also- Why did you say im shoving any not heart river? It is much more likely that he has 45 than hearts. He called your flop bet so hearts are unlikely. Sure in retrospect he has hearts, but of course you couldnt have known that. Putting him on hearts here and not considering other hands is not good imo.
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Old 02-09-2012, 01:20 AM   #4
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Re: QQ in BB Deep vs LAG & TAG

I like cbet on flop, but with 2 callers I'm done with this hand. C/R on turn is representing a lot of strength with a hand like AA, AK, or KK; so V2's call on turn should send alarm bells that he is either on the straight draw or too stubborn with his weak ace and will call any river bet.

Fold turn.
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Old 02-09-2012, 01:35 AM   #5
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Re: QQ in BB Deep vs LAG & TAG

I'm making in 22-30 preflop, and I'm not betting this flop in a 4-way pot. Turn is spewtastic.
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Old 02-09-2012, 01:45 AM   #6
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Re: QQ in BB Deep vs LAG & TAG

... bet more pre

i cbet or c/f this flop depending on villains... I prob cbet but as soon as v1 calls just gtfo.

turn c/f

river c/f... v1 isnt even b4 v2 in acting so worst possible spot IMO since v1 is somewhat strong like AT+ prob and v2 is on a draw which could have hit so either v2 hit and calls or v1 has no1 behind him to act getting crazy good odds in a bloated pot and will prob make a crying call
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Old 02-09-2012, 03:11 AM   #7
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Re: QQ in BB Deep vs LAG & TAG

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothcriminal99 View Post
... bet more pre

i cbet or c/f this flop depending on villains... I prob cbet but as soon as v1 calls just gtfo.

turn c/f

river c/f... v1 isnt even b4 v2 in acting so worst possible spot IMO since v1 is somewhat strong like AT+ prob and v2 is on a draw which could have hit so either v2 hit and calls or v1 has no1 behind him to act getting crazy good odds in a bloated pot and will prob make a crying call
Definitely agree with all points. This is the way the hand should have been played by the book. But... my reads were right. I sensed a huge opportunity with the c/r on the turn, and successfully got V1 out of the hand, and if V2 WAS calling, I thought I had a lot of FE on a non-heart river. I was willing to go bust on this read. I regrettably did not foresee the 7 high straight draw as a possibility.

So, I'm willing to accept that I didn't raise enough pre. Cbet on flop is questionable into a 4 way pot. Took a shot, missed. But I'm having a hard time thinking the turn/river were a bad plays given my reads. I do not bluff often, and I definitely don't bluff into big pots like this one. I'm trying to work this into my game so that I'm less predictable. This seemed like the perfect spot to do it.

I'd definitely like to know if anyone, reading the hand as I did, thinks this is a bold, good play I need to work into my arsenal, or if I need to pick better spots to attempt this play.
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:39 AM   #8
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Re: QQ in BB Deep vs LAG & TAG

*GRUNCH*

-You should have raised more preflop, make it AT LEAST $20.

-It's likely that someone has an ace imo, if you are betting to find out where your at then bet 1/2 pot and save yourself the extra $10-15 in stead of betting $35. There is nothing wrong with check/folding this flop.

-If you describe villain as someone who will stick around and call with almost always, then why are you trying to bluff him... just check/fold the turn.

-Your river bet makes absolutely no sense, the only hand your gonna get this particular opponent to fold is either a weak ace, or a flush draw a busted flush draw (which you already beat). You are gonna get called by every 2pair, set, and straight, and the hands you get to fold you already have them beat. (except for a weak ace)

You played this hand horrendously because you were on tilt. I think you made the most -EV play on every street lol.

Remember you don't beat recreational players by trying to outplay them, you beat them with fundamentals.
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:39 AM   #9
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Re: QQ in BB Deep vs LAG & TAG

Please don't post results in the OP. When you do, you tend to get results orientated commentary.

The worst part of this hand is that you made a plan after the flop, then promptly ignored it on the turn.
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