Pre sizing is fine. I would bet 1/3ish pot otf b/c hes more likely to spew by calling light then doubling, tripling or value owning himself with worse and possibly putting us in a tough spot. As played, when you bet 2/3 otf and are called, we put ourselves in a spot where we should probably just be checking and folding to any reasonably sized bet.

Unless you have some other reads based on how this particular v's tilt manifests itself I think we need to mostly c/f here ott.

Fairly clear c/c on the turn. Nothing better is folding, we can only get value from a naked Ac/Kc so something like Ac9o? KcTo? Seems way too thin to bet.

What are you doing on river?

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Turn ($175) QcQs9cJc. I bet $120 and he shoved all in. Blah. Clearly I wish I didnt bet once he shoved.

Its $195 to me with a $610 pot. I need 24% equity to call.

Think we have to fold here. Would be curious what our equity is, but there is a good chance that we are drawing to 4 outs, one of which may be in villains hole cards.

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It's really difficult to construct an accurate range against a steaming opponent. But if we need 24% equity to call... I would have a difficult time folding in-game.

This is where I'm at, and it's exactly why I would have checked turn. We're here now though, and I just don't think I'm ever finding a fold. Definitely not loving it though.

I don't know if you have 24%. Club outs are no good if villain has Ac or Kc. Some or all straight outs may be bad. Villain could already have a flush or boat or better pair. And if he doesn't he probably has a better draw.

This is why I said we should check turn here because if raised you are in a really bad spot. Seems like you're priced to call but way behind. These spots are really hard to quantify though. You might have 34% equity or 0% or anywhere in between.

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V prob has T9 when he shoves.

or jt

Or he could have Qx, AK, AT no club, AcX, KcX, KJ, 99, etc.

How do you narrow him down to T9?

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Because our hero cant lose when we've been informed of Vs possible tiltiness, and I want soul-reading points and tilting rec players don't shove boats.

Agree about 99 but he could have the rest of the hands I mentioned.

You are probably right about T9 though. The one likely hand hero beats.

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Tilting rec players shove boats and then complain about not getting action on their hand.
Villain may well have shoved if we had checked. I think we have to lay this down despite the good price. I'm pretty confident Villain has at worst a flush and may well have us drawing completely dead.
Hero could call and hit a SF out and send Villain into a new realm of super whirly tilt.

I mean it's mostly just tongue in cheek commentary at this point bc it's just bet call and pray.

You think V is that nutted? It's hard to make a boat, much harder than trips, or a pair, or a pair + OESD... or air because otherwise they wouldn't be a tilting rec.

I called. He had AQ (no club) and his hand held up. So my call was correct with 36% equity but I think this is a good example of hands that you force yourself into a bad position to make a correct call. I can tell myself "look how bad I run" or I can review the hand honestly and admit that I did it to myself by being too aggressive in a tough spot.

You can't evaluate whether the call was correct by looking at your equity vs. that specific hand.

I do think it's a call but I can't find any reasonable range that gives you 36% equity. This is about the best I can do and it gives 32.8% equity: {QQ-99,AQs-ATs,KTs+,Q8s+,J9s+,T9s,AcKc,Ac9c,Kc9c,Ac8c,Kc8c,Jc 8c,Tc8c,9c8c,Ac7c,Kc7c,Qc7c,Jc7c,Tc7c,9c7c,8c7c,Ac 6c,Kc6c,9c6c,8c6c,7c6c,Ac5c,Kc5c,7c5c,6c5c,Ac4c,Kc 4c,6c4c,5c4c,Ac3c,Kc3c,Ac2c,Kc2c,AQo-AJo,KTo+,Q9o+,J9o+,T9o,AdKc,AhKc,AsKc,AcKd,AcKh,Ac Ks,AcTd,AcTh,AcTs,Ac9d,Ac9h,Ac9s,Kd9c,Kh9c,Ks9c,Kc 9d,Kc9h,Kc9s}

And if we add some more made hands and drop the weaker draws it could be as bad as 22.4%: {99+,AQs,KQs,Q2s+,JTs,AcKc,Ac9c,Kc9c,Ac8c,Kc8c,Jc8 c,Tc8c,9c8c,Ac7c,Kc7c,Jc7c,Tc7c,9c7c,8c7c,Ac6c,Kc6 c,Tc6c,9c6c,8c6c,7c6c,Ac5c,Kc5c,9c5c,8c5c,7c5c,6c5 c,Ac4c,Kc4c,8c4c,7c4c,6c4c,5c4c,Ac3c,Kc3c,6c3c,5c3 c,4c3c,Ac2c,Kc2c,AQo,KQo,Q9o+,JTo,AcJd,AcJh,AcJs,K cJd,KcJh,KcJs,KdTc,KhTc,KsTc,KcTd,KcTh,KcTs}

Second range is pretty much a worst case scenario though. Since you only need like 24% equity it's almost certainly correct to call. I do think the flop bet and especially the turn bet are mistakes though. And with the turn bet sizing it's a little tricky whether to call a shove. If you bet less on the turn, say, 1/2 pot, you can probably get away from the hand if he shoves. If you bet more, say, pot, it's a snap call if he shoves.

I'm not sure if you were suggesting you're too aggressive generally or just here, but generally you might actually be too passive (IMHO). You just sometimes pick bad spots for aggression, particularly when you have good but not amazing showdown value. You seem to get it in by the turn unusually often.

You do this by checking not by clicking other buttons

That's what I said. I screwed the hand up and Im just being honest about it. I think when most people go on a bad run they cry and cry about how bad the variance is and talk about how you never know how bad it can be until you experience it yourself. My point is that you are most likely making the variance worse yourself like I did here.

This cracks me up.

1) There is no way in hell that I'm too passive. Most of the regs I play with get tired of my aggression and they moan and groan about it regularly

2) How can I "get it in by the turn unusually often" but also generally be too passive?

3) I do pick bad spots for aggression occasionally like i did here so I'll concede that point to you.


What youre saying is that overall Im mostly too passive, but Im also selectively too aggressive in the wrong spots. So basically Im a fish. Coming from a guy who maybe has 100 hours of live 1/2 under his belt, Im gonna take that with a grain of salt.

What I've noticed from reading your posts is that you play pretty passively postflop in a lot of situations where you should be bluffing / semibluffing / barreling. But certain types of hands you play over-aggressively, namely, strong but not nutted hands like overpairs. You get it in on the turn with these very frequently. I've read all your hand histories. And I'm not the only one who's noticed this. Others with substantial live hours have pointed out the same thing. What I'm suggesting is your betting and x/r ranges should be more polarized. As it is these ranges appear heavily weighted towards value hands including somewhat marginal value hands (like this hand) you should often be checking. Up to you if you don't want to listen, but why post in the strat forum if you don't want feedback?

And I knew you were going to insult me since you can't take criticism. Not that it matters, since I don't make arguments from authority, but I'm playing full time and my sample size is already several times larger than that and rapidly growing.

I realize you don't like your line, but you should not be using the word correct at all here because it's extremely misleading.

Correct based on the actual hand is what I meant. I know we play based on ranges, but none of us know what his actual range is. We can guess but we dont know. Every player is different. I didnt do the math to figure my equity against what I think his range is. If I did, my guess is its probably pretty close to high 20s.

In the end, when faced with an all in like this we have to make our best guess at what his actual hand is based on everything we know and whatever read we have.

Here's what I have a problem with. You say I play pretty passively post flop in a lot of situations where I should be bluffing/semi blufing...ect.

Says who? You're not Phil Ivey. You said that I insulted you but what you did was basically say my whole game sucks.

There is no one way to play poker. My style works for me and has been working for a pretty long time. Ive probably played more live hours in the past 18 months than 98% of the people on this forum. Ask anyone in my room and they will tell you Im one of the top 5 winners playing 2/5. My room is bigger than the Tampa HR so there's plenty of people playing there. Honestly I think there's only 1 guy who wins more than I do and its because he seemingly knows exactly when to make big bluffs and I havent mastered that. Whether you believe that or not is really of no concern to me. I dont bring that up to brag. I only bring it up because I have a pedigree. Its like some guy coming out of the minor leagues and giving an All Star hitting lessons and trying to tell the All Star to swing just like he does. You think the All Star is going to change his entire hitting stance and approach to hitting because some random new guy told him he sucks when the All Star has been crushing the ball for years? I doubt it.

If you want to tell me I screwed up a certain hand, like this one, that's cool. Thats why I posted it. But dont try to tell me my whole game sucks. That's nonsense. I guess if I fixed all the leaks people here have told me I have Id be hitting $100/hr?