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| Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies. |
02-08-2012, 05:17 AM
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#1
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grinder
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Russia
Posts: 566
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PAHWM: KK IP MW wet flop.
This PAHWM is specific, as it will play not from my POV, but from my opponents view. There is a reason for this, that I will explain later.
Reads:
The table is just getting started, probably 3rd orbit or so. The play is 7 handed.
Villain 1. [$200] 40 y.o. white collar recreational player, LP pre, sometimes fast with draws post, overvalues made hands, has trouble finding fold button. Is well rolled for $1/2, could play $5/10 but doesn't want the stress.
Hero. [$300] 20ish y.o. Online MTT Pro. Plays TAG (I mean really tight and aggressive, not "tag"). Plays a really tight range of pre hands, never limps, rarely calls. But plays well post flop, bluffing and folding as necessary. Viewed as a strong tight player by the table.
Villain 2. [$200] 18 y.o. Young LAG (I really mean loose and aggressive, thought he has some overcalling issues preflop, so not truly LAG) recreational player, sticky, creative and not afraid of high variance.
Villain 3 (elcebro). [$400] Is young white regular. Usually plays AG, not really loose because field in this place is stronger, compared to others and people don't allow him to run them over.
Actual stacksize +-$20 from the above numbers but this is non essencial.
Pre flop:
Villain 1 limps from UTG.
Hero has K  K  raises $12 from UTG+1.
Villain 2 calls $12 from SB.
Villain 3 calls $12 from BB.
Villain 1 calls $12 from UTG.
Flop:
7 6 4
[Pot: $48]
Villains check to Hero.
Hero ..?
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02-08-2012, 05:39 AM
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#2
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old hand
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,218
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Re: PAHWM: KK IP MW wet flop.
Bet 40
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02-08-2012, 05:43 AM
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#3
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grinder
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Russia
Posts: 566
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Re: PAHWM: KK IP MW wet flop.
LolPony always there 
Why bet this big?
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02-08-2012, 05:46 AM
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#4
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old hand
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,218
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Re: PAHWM: KK IP MW wet flop.
Super wet board.
I bet 40 here just because If I bet anything less hearts and 5x is calling.
At the same time I'm announcing - if you raise you better have the nuts because you aren't going to have much fold equity(so don't raise your combo draws)! haha
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02-08-2012, 07:42 AM
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#5
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: No MC? Boxer will do
Posts: 5,555
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Re: PAHWM: KK IP MW wet flop.
Alright, someone tell me if this is a leak I have.
4 players to the flop, on a horribly wet board, there was a pf raise, but not what i'd consider a huge one.
I check here and see a free turn. I really don't think a bet is folding out much, and i'd rather not throw another 40 in the pot when i'm going to hate half the turn cards. Keep the pot small while i have to dodge two cards to come, and thats assuming i'm ahead now. I'll make a decent bet on the turn, once i've dodged a dangerous card, or i'll give up on the hand.
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02-08-2012, 07:46 AM
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#6
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old hand
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,218
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Re: PAHWM: KK IP MW wet flop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillydilly
Alright, someone tell me if this is a leak I have.
4 players to the flop, on a horribly wet board, there was a pf raise, but not what i'd consider a huge one.
I check here and see a free turn. I really don't think a bet is folding out much, and i'd rather not throw another 40 in the pot when i'm going to hate half the turn cards. Keep the pot small while i have to dodge two cards to come, and thats assuming i'm ahead now. I'll make a decent bet on the turn, once i've dodged a dangerous card, or i'll give up on the hand.
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Interesting concept. But What happens when turn is 2  and Villain leads for like 50 because they think their A7 is good? Or they lead with X  X  because no one has shown any interest.
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02-08-2012, 08:09 AM
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#7
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: No MC? Boxer will do
Posts: 5,555
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Re: PAHWM: KK IP MW wet flop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LolPony
Interesting concept. But What happens when turn is 2  and Villain leads for like 50 because they think their A7 is good? Or they lead with X  X  because no one has shown any interest.
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Hard one to answer, a lot of it depends on where the bet comes from, our read of the villain, if anyone else called etc.
if SB leads for $50, and we have 2 callers is one thing.
if we have check check bet $50, thats another
if its SB lead for $50, fold fold, yet another.
I'd probably like to get a raise in, but there are a lot of variables here
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02-08-2012, 08:34 AM
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#8
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grinder
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 471
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Re: PAHWM: KK IP MW wet flop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elcebro
This PAHWM is specific, as it will play not from my POV, but from my opponents view. There is a reason for this, that I will explain later.
Reads:
The table is just getting started, probably 3rd orbit or so. The play is 7 handed.
Villain 1. [$200] 40 y.o. white collar recreational player, LP pre, sometimes fast with draws post, overvalues made hands, has trouble finding fold button. Is well rolled for $1/2, could play $5/10 but doesn't want the stress.
Hero. [$300] 20ish y.o. Online MTT Pro. Plays TAG (I mean really tight and aggressive, not "tag"). Plays a really tight range of pre hands, never limps, rarely calls. But plays well post flop, bluffing and folding as necessary. Viewed as a strong tight player by the table.
Villain 2. [$200] 18 y.o. Young LAG (I really mean loose and aggressive, thought he has some overcalling issues preflop, so not truly LAG) recreational player, sticky, creative and not afraid of high variance.
Villain 3 (elcebro). [$400] Is young white regular. Usually plays AG, not really loose because field in this place is stronger, compared to others and people don't allow him to run them over.
Actual stacksize +-$20 from the above numbers but this is non essencial.
Pre flop:
Villain 1 limps from UTG.
Hero has K  K  raises $12 from UTG+1.
Villain 2 calls $12 from SB.
Villain 3 calls $12 from BB.
Villain 1 calls $12 from UTG.
Flop:
7 6 4
[Pot: $48]
Villains check to Hero.
Hero ..?
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*Grunch*
Is 12 a standard raise?
Flop is wet, and smacks multi-way hands pretty hard. However, we are usually ahead. Charge the draws.
Bet $36.
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02-08-2012, 08:42 AM
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#9
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grinder
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Russia
Posts: 566
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Re: PAHWM: KK IP MW wet flop.
Table is only starting, but so far $12 is on the big side of the standard raise, but not out of line.
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02-08-2012, 09:56 AM
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#10
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centurion
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 126
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Bet $35. barring a live read or a ton of action, get it in vs. a c/r from any one of the villains.
Why are you playing at such a relatively tough 1/2 table?
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02-08-2012, 09:59 AM
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#11
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journeyman
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: space-time continuum
Posts: 396
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Re: PAHWM: KK IP MW wet flop.
*Grunch*
Bet $30 to narrow the field. Anyone with a hand is most likely on a draw, so charge.
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02-08-2012, 10:12 AM
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#12
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adept
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St Louis
Posts: 891
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Re: PAHWM: KK IP MW wet flop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fold4once
*Grunch*
Bet $30 to narrow the field. Anyone with a hand is most likely on a draw, so charge.
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Which is why I am much closer to psb on this one. $40 is my min. $45 is about right. In these games, the players are chasing a lot of draws. The wetter the board, the bigger my betting because I get paid. Why bet $30 when $45 gets called "almost" as frequently. Plus, the $30 tends to start the avalanche of callers behind. Whereas $45 is more likely to get us HU. I'm not super happy when things fold around, but I get a caller here quite often with a large bet. There's also a portion of the population that puts me on AKhh here and calls with a 7 or TTish because "you would never bet this big if you actually had it." Haha....wrong again.
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02-08-2012, 11:07 AM
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#13
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grinder
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 471
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Re: PAHWM: KK IP MW wet flop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chopper5654
Which is why I am much closer to psb on this one. $40 is my min. $45 is about right. In these games, the players are chasing a lot of draws. The wetter the board, the bigger my betting because I get paid. Why bet $30 when $45 gets called "almost" as frequently. Plus, the $30 tends to start the avalanche of callers behind. Whereas $45 is more likely to get us HU. I'm not super happy when things fold around, but I get a caller here quite often with a large bet. There's also a portion of the population that puts me on AKhh here and calls with a 7 or TTish because "you would never bet this big if you actually had it." Haha....wrong again.
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I agree with this. I said $36, but that is really my minimum bet. I'm ok with anything up to a pot size bet. That said, I still only have a one pair hand and I want to be careful about bloating this pot. We do have position, though, so we can check behind on a bad turn card for pot control, if necessary.
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02-08-2012, 11:51 AM
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#14
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grinder
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 500
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Re: PAHWM: KK IP MW wet flop.
A PSB is about right - will charge any flush draws and any OESD like 98s. 5x hands seems unlikely and probably wouldn't continue on with the hand with the flush draw out there, *unless* they had a hand like Ah5h, in which case we hate almost half the deck.
Bet now and try to thin the herd while we're probably still ahead. It will help narrow villains' range and we'll have a better idea of where we stand on the turn. Plus, I would normally expect it to get checked around to Hero on the turn as well, in which case you could decide to just take the free card and try to get to showdown cheaply. I'm not going broke with one pair, but just checking the flop seems like a mistake to me since I have to think we're still ahead.
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02-08-2012, 12:02 PM
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#15
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,006
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Re: PAHWM: KK IP MW wet flop.
*In Before Locked.lol*
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