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| Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies. |
02-07-2012, 09:27 PM
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#1
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journeyman
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 222
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PAHWM: K9s from the CO 150BB deep
My first PAHWM... I think a couple interesting spots came up in this hand, so I'd like everyone's take street by street. Thanks.
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Hero: (Covers)1/3NL on a Saturday night @ around 1am. Hero is playing well, mixing it up in different spots, almost always raising preflop, taking most pots down after a c-bet or a well-timed double barrel. Was up two BI until got overflushed playing suited connectors by a villain not involved in this hand. Q4cc > 98cc. This was about 20 hands ago. No signs of tilt apparent.
Villain: ($450) ~40 yo white guy. He plays rather straight forward. Only 1 hand notable between hero and villain. Hero raised AQ and villain called in position. Flop was K74cc. I c-bet he called. Turn was a K. I double-barreled, he min-raised, I obviously folded. I haven't seen him bluff or get out of line. A different hand when he flopped 2 pair against a different villain, he raised the flop on a coordinated board.
Limper: ($200) Scared money & terrible. Hadn't seen him raise preflop once. ~21 yo. Did a lot of l/c. Just rebought after l/c, c/c, c/c, c/c 2 pair vs better 2 pair. My target in this hand.
The hand:
Hero is in CO with K  9
Pre-flop:
(Villain is on button. SB & BB are LP and have been folding to my button & CO raises a ton.)
Limper limps from MP2, Hero?
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02-07-2012, 09:35 PM
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#2
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adept
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,034
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Re: PAHWM: K9s from the CO 150BB deep
I have never played 1/3 so i dont know the appropriate preflop sizing but I probally raise to like $18 here.
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02-07-2012, 09:41 PM
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#3
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old hand
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,212
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Re: PAHWM: K9s from the CO 150BB deep
Yeap, raise it up. It's nice having a straight-forward player to our left. I don't know the dynamics of this 1/3 table but I would be cautious to not over/under size the raise...Just raise it to whatever the standard has been at the table.
Pre seems pretty standard..Let's move to the interesting next step
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02-07-2012, 09:49 PM
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#4
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journeyman
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 222
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Re: PAHWM: K9s from the CO 150BB deep
I expected at least 1 fold pre.
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Hero: (Covers)1/3NL on a Saturday night @ around 1am. Hero is playing well, mixing it up in different spots, almost always raising preflop, taking most pots down after a c-bet or a well-timed double barrel. Was up two BI until got overflushed playing suited connectors by a villain not involved in this hand. Q4cc > 98cc. This was about 20 hands ago. No signs of tilt apparent.
Villain: ($450) ~40 yo white guy. He plays rather straight forward. Only 1 hand notable between hero and villain. Hero raised AQ and villain called in position. Flop was K74cc. I c-bet he called. Turn was a K. I double-barreled, he min-raised, I obviously folded. I haven't seen him bluff or get out of line. A different hand when he flopped 2 pair against a different villain, he raised the flop on a coordinated board.
Limper: ($200) Scared money & terrible. Hadn't seen him raise preflop once. ~21 yo. Did a lot of l/c. Just rebought after l/c, c/c, c/c, c/c 2 pair vs better 2 pair. My target in this hand.
The hand:
Hero is in CO with K  9
Pre-flop:
(Villain is on button. SB & BB are LP and have been folding to my button & CO raises a ton.)
Limper limps from MP2, Hero raises to $15 (my standard raise), Villain OTB calls. Blinds fold. Limper calls.
No reads from either. Looked casual. Villain's range is 22+,AT+,sc. Limper could have anything
Flop: ($49) T  9  3
limper checks, hero?
Last edited by Accomplice; 02-07-2012 at 10:00 PM.
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02-07-2012, 09:58 PM
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#5
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,006
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Re: PAHWM: K9s from the CO 150BB deep
Hero bets 30$
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02-07-2012, 09:59 PM
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#6
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,006
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Re: PAHWM: K9s from the CO 150BB deep
What was your plan preflop for the flop. Raise, Cbet and get folds?
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02-07-2012, 10:08 PM
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#7
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old hand
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,212
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Re: PAHWM: K9s from the CO 150BB deep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accomplice
I expected at least 1 fold pre.
____________________________
Hero: (Covers)1/3NL on a Saturday night @ around 1am. Hero is playing well, mixing it up in different spots, almost always raising preflop, taking most pots down after a c-bet or a well-timed double barrel. Was up two BI until got overflushed playing suited connectors by a villain not involved in this hand. Q4cc > 98cc. This was about 20 hands ago. No signs of tilt apparent.
Villain: ($450) ~40 yo white guy. He plays rather straight forward. Only 1 hand notable between hero and villain. Hero raised AQ and villain called in position. Flop was K74cc. I c-bet he called. Turn was a K. I double-barreled, he min-raised, I obviously folded. I haven't seen him bluff or get out of line. A different hand when he flopped 2 pair against a different villain, he raised the flop on a coordinated board.
Limper: ($200) Scared money & terrible. Hadn't seen him raise preflop once. ~21 yo. Did a lot of l/c. Just rebought after l/c, c/c, c/c, c/c 2 pair vs better 2 pair. My target in this hand.
The hand:
Hero is in CO with K  9
Pre-flop:
(Villain is on button. SB & BB are LP and have been folding to my button & CO raises a ton.)
Limper limps from MP2, Hero raises to $15 (my standard raise), Villain OTB calls. Blinds fold. Limper calls.
No reads from either. Looked casual. Villain's range is 22+,AT+,sc. Limper could have anything
Flop: ($49) T  9  3
limper checks, hero?
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bet 2/3 pot...about $35. I always bet 2/3 to PSB on flop, dpending on texture and player types involved...it's enough to build a pot quickly for when we hit a monster (our hand is well disguised).
We're not looking to fold any better hands here but rather maintain a strong initiative going into turn, with decent equity to boot. And if everyone folds, then nh
The only dynamic that could alter my line would be the Limper's tendencies. He is the target, afterall.
1) Is Limper more apt to overcall when button calls? or would he fold here with crap like gutshots, underpairs, BP?
2) How about if hero check and villain bets? Is Limper more likely to call in this scenario with the weakest part of his range?
I think it's important to consider Limper's tendencies before acting
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02-07-2012, 10:35 PM
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#8
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journeyman
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 222
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Re: PAHWM: K9s from the CO 150BB deep
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokahBlows
What was your plan preflop for the flop. Raise, Cbet and get folds?
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Yeah, pretty much. If it happens I flop a 9 as top pair, I'm ahead of most 9s. If I flop a flush draw I have a lot of equity to barrel with. I don't love my hand if I flop a K, but I c-bet anyway. I probably c-bet ~80% of the time.
Quote:
The only dynamic that could alter my line would be the Limper's tendencies. He is the target, afterall.
1) Is Limper more apt to overcall when button calls? or would he fold here with crap like gutshots, underpairs, BP?
2) How about if hero check and villain bets? Is Limper more likely to call in this scenario with the weakest part of his range?
I think it's important to consider Limper's tendencies before acting
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These are good questions and ones I haven't/didn't give much thought to. Limper is on level 1, but scared. I don't think he'd call with gutshots. I'd exploited him a little, but not enough to play back at me. I doubt he'd call with bottom pair. He c/c with 2 pair, so a raise out of him would be ridiculously unexpected. If he called my c-bet I'd probably shut down against him unless I improved because I think Tx would be most of his range. Sure, there'd be some straight draws I'd miss value on, but a greater part of his range would be TP.
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02-07-2012, 10:43 PM
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#9
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journeyman
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 222
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Re: PAHWM: K9s from the CO 150BB deep
Hero: (Covers)1/3NL on a Saturday night @ around 1am. Hero is playing well, mixing it up in different spots, almost always raising preflop, taking most pots down after a c-bet or a well-timed double barrel. Was up two BI until got overflushed playing suited connectors by a villain not involved in this hand. Q4cc > 98cc. This was about 20 hands ago. No signs of tilt apparent.
Villain: ($450) ~40 yo white guy. He plays rather straight forward. Only 1 hand notable between hero and villain. Hero raised AQ and villain called in position. Flop was K74cc. I c-bet he called. Turn was a K. I double-barreled, he min-raised, I obviously folded. I haven't seen him bluff or get out of line. A different hand when he flopped 2 pair against a different villain, he raised the flop on a coordinated board.
Limper: ($200) Scared money & terrible. Hadn't seen him raise preflop once. ~21 yo. Did a lot of l/c. Just rebought after l/c, c/c, c/c, c/c 2 pair vs better 2 pair. My target in this hand.
The hand:
Hero is in CO with K  9
Pre-flop:
(Villain is on button. SB & BB are LP and have been folding to my button & CO raises a ton.)
Limper limps from MP2, Hero raises to $15 (my standard raise), Villain OTB calls. Blinds fold. Limper calls.
No reads from either. Looked casual. Villain's range is 22+,AT+,sc. Limper could have anything
Flop: ($49) T  9  3
limper checks, hero c-bets $30, villain thinks maybe 5 seconds before calling, limper folds
Turn: ($109) 5
hero?
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02-07-2012, 11:04 PM
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#10
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,006
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Re: PAHWM: K9s from the CO 150BB deep
60$ villain is straight forward we have no reason to check imo.
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02-07-2012, 11:11 PM
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#11
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old hand
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,212
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Re: PAHWM: K9s from the CO 150BB deep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accomplice
Hero: (Covers)1/3NL on a Saturday night @ around 1am. Hero is playing well, mixing it up in different spots, almost always raising preflop, taking most pots down after a c-bet or a well-timed double barrel. Was up two BI until got overflushed playing suited connectors by a villain not involved in this hand. Q4cc > 98cc. This was about 20 hands ago. No signs of tilt apparent.
Villain: ($450) ~40 yo white guy. He plays rather straight forward. Only 1 hand notable between hero and villain. Hero raised AQ and villain called in position. Flop was K74cc. I c-bet he called. Turn was a K. I double-barreled, he min-raised, I obviously folded. I haven't seen him bluff or get out of line. A different hand when he flopped 2 pair against a different villain, he raised the flop on a coordinated board.
Limper: ($200) Scared money & terrible. Hadn't seen him raise preflop once. ~21 yo. Did a lot of l/c. Just rebought after l/c, c/c, c/c, c/c 2 pair vs better 2 pair. My target in this hand.
The hand:
Hero is in CO with K  9
Pre-flop:
(Villain is on button. SB & BB are LP and have been folding to my button & CO raises a ton.)
Limper limps from MP2, Hero raises to $15 (my standard raise), Villain OTB calls. Blinds fold. Limper calls.
No reads from either. Looked casual. Villain's range is 22+,AT+,sc. Limper could have anything
Flop: ($49) T  9  3
limper checks, hero c-bets $30, villain thinks maybe 5 seconds before calling, limper folds
Turn: ($109) 5
hero?
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My initial inclination is to just bet turn again for 75-80. However, you do have history with villain where you double-barelled and folded to his turn raise, so he could be aware of this dynamic. Which means we should think through our turn plan well: Do we b/c , b/3b, c/c, c/r? ...obv I don't think folding is an option.
The one observation that, I think, is pretty pertinent here is this villain plays pretty straightforward..which means, if he raises you, it is rarely a thin/semibluff raise, which means you may have less FE (against his raising range) than you think you do. Something to consider.
Let's see how we fare against villain's turn raising range if we lead turn:
Villain's turn raising range is (99, TT, 33, 9Ts, 9To, J  Q  )
We have 26% equity against villain's proposed raising range. If we remove J  Q  our equity drops to 22%
In conclusion:
1) b/3b....not the best line as I don't think we have decent FE against his raising range
2) c/r.....same as above
3) c/c....I don't want to give up initiative + there's a good chance he will fold KT to a turn bet so checking is the worst option
So I think b/c $80 makes the most sense because if he raises to $200 (even though he has minraised before) we still have more equity than pot odds to call
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02-07-2012, 11:24 PM
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#12
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enthusiast
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 96
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Re: PAHWM: K9s from the CO 150BB deep
Quote:
Originally Posted by endodocdc
My initial inclination is to just bet turn again for 75-80. However, you do have history with villain where you double-barelled and folded to his turn raise, so he could be aware of this dynamic. Which means we should think through our turn plan well: Do we b/c , b/3b, c/c, c/r? ...obv I don't think folding is an option.
The one observation that, I think, is pretty pertinent here is this villain plays pretty straightforward..which means, if he raises you, it is rarely a thin/semibluff raise, which means you may have less FE (against his raising range) than you think you do. Something to consider.
Let's see how we fare against villain's turn raising range if we lead turn:
Villain's turn raising range is (99, TT, 33, 9Ts, 9To, J  Q  )
We have 26% equity against villain's proposed raising range. If we remove J  Q  our equity drops to 22%
In conclusion:
1) b/3b....not the best line as I don't think we have decent FE against his raising range
2) c/r.....same as above
3) c/c....I don't want to give up initiative + there's a good chance he will fold KT to a turn bet so checking is the worst option
So I think b/c $80 makes the most sense because if he raises to $200 (even though he has minraised before) we still have more equity than pot odds to call
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Yes, I like b/c. Get some money in there before the scare card comes and Vill shuts down.
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02-07-2012, 11:28 PM
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#13
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 4,127
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I check/call on the turn. Let's us get value from his floats by inducing bluffs, and if he checks behind we can make a nice, thin v-bet on the river that he will call with a mid PP. I don't want to bet and have to call a raise.
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02-08-2012, 12:10 AM
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#14
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journeyman
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 316
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Re: PAHWM: K9s from the CO 150BB deep
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokahBlows
What was your plan preflop for the flop. Raise, Cbet and get folds?
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I agree with this...
Now were shooting for the moon with a flush draw and middle pair, ready to bet/call off a large portion of our stack on a shot at the river.
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02-08-2012, 12:11 AM
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#15
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grinder
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Russia
Posts: 566
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Re: PAHWM: K9s from the CO 150BB deep
I'd go for c/c here.
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