Sounds like the majority is in the bet camp. I tend to agree here but a different kind of ace high flop or different opponents may change my answer. Typically vs these types of villains I would x/c here but with this texture I think there's plenty of worse hands that will call flop and I have no reason yet to believe I'm beat. I also think that while I don't consider my opponents to be tough/good players, I think they know enough to understand exploitive strategies, which I think I'm allowing if I check to them.

In general I think when we flop somewhat poorly with strong hands, our decisions in later streets are easier to make when we bet flop. Otherwise we find ourselves check/calling someone down with no idea where we stand. I'm posting this hand though because I don't really think any decision post flop is a slam-dunk decision we'll feel good about.

Moving on...

BTN ($525)
MP ($450)
SB Hero ($725)

MP limps, BTN limps, Hero makes it $30 with KK MP calls, BTN calls.


Flop ($95)
AJ8

Hero bets $55, MP folds, BTN calls.

Turn ($205)
AJ8 3

Hero?

150. So few hands can stack off (150 sets up for easy river shove), and you have more AA/AK/AQ/AJ/JJ in your range than bluffs. If V flopped or turned two pair, tip hat. Way more Ax one pair hands in his range and V usually won't play for his stack with it. Also takes away his direct/implied odds to peel one with 910.

Good betsizing so far, $135 now.

B/f $50-$60 OTF. If called, it's a toss up between c/c to showdown (depending on V's sizing) and bet $100-$120 OTT.

If he calls the second barrel it's Ax (where x = poop) or QT/T9. You'd have to evaluate OTR.

Don't bet flop. We can x some ATs stuff too, and kick things off with a check with some nutted stuff some %. It's going to be very easy to get to a river/SD vs a BTN bet if we start by checking. The turns gonna go x/x a ton.

We can now triple as a bluff which I don't like deciding to go for otf with a hand this good, or we can x vs a betting range that is pry something like A3/J8s and draws from your average vil. And I think they might just take the card a bunch with the latter. Maybe the occasional I don't even know why I'm betting bet from QJo and other Ax is in there too.

Edit: if it does go x, x, b otf and BTN decides to start firing off I think we should look to call down some favorable runouts. People aren't gonna go for 3 streets with medium or low Ax unless they turn or river two pair. So if this bricks off I'm actually pretty excited to click call. And if he has A8/J8 or the aforementioned hands nh. This is at best a 2 street hand anyway if someone has Jx and someone not thinking or handreading well won't care if it's b/x/b or x/b/b

Check. The bulk of villain's calling range is Ax. The hands that you beat almost never bet the turn. Don't value own yourself and try to get to a showdown. You'll find out very quickly where you stand for free by checking.

So not much discussion on the turn. I think betting and checking are both pretty close here. I disagree with the last post though saying we're getting plenty of information if we check. I think if I'm in villain's shoes, I'm betting nearly 100% of my flop calling range, aside from 8x kinda hands which probably don't call flop very often anyway.

But I think as villain, betting turn can be very profitable as a semi-bluff as well as for value. It also works as kind of a blocker if we have a hand like say KJ, which has value and we can frequently check back river, effectively controlling the pot for the remainder of the hand.

So for about the same reason we bet flop, we also bet turn, however a little smaller than what a few of you were suggesting. Checking just feels exploitable and I don't think we can stand the heat if we face another bet on the river. If called, I'm likely check/folding most rivers.

BTN ($525)
MP ($450)
SB Hero ($725)

MP limps, BTN limps, Hero makes it $30 with KK MP calls, BTN calls.


Flop ($95)
AJ8

Hero bets $55, MP folds, BTN calls.

Turn ($205)
AJ8 3

Hero bets $110, BTN tanks for about 30 seconds, and calls.

River ($425)
AJ8 3 K

Hero?

Pretty good river and this sort of becomes a luxury spot all of the sudden. We're obviously going for value this hand. The question is, do we jam, or check/jam?

Jamming seems fine since we have a good SPR. My only question is what worse hands does he have that we get looked up with? We easily rep sets, and large two pairs, so I wouldn't be shocked if we got villain to lay down a hand like A8/A3. BUT, if he did have more than one pair hand, wouldn't we have heard from him on the flop or turn? Obviously QT beats is but that's just a cooler at this point.

But how often does he bet this river when checked to?

Is it worth discussing betting smallish like $185?

Please shove river. You have less than a PSB behind and if you had not binked the river card I wouldn't have expected him to fold Ax to a triple barrel. Any hand he's betting if you check is also calling other than something like T9.

As villain ott facing a check, I'd much rather bet 8x than Jx or Ax, and would xb the vast majority of my range, but to each their own.

Edit: Thought about it more and we definitely have to mostly be checking as villain. If we bet it is with the sole intention of exploiting people's propensity to x/f turn after they raise pre, c-bet, and then check turn. And even then I think most of our hands don't want or need to bet. We have *almost* no strong hands. Furthermore, anyone good or observant that knows we like to bet way too much when checked to here can just x/rip a range of value and strong draws and we're not gonna see the river, and if we do we're mostly getting in toasted.

Anyway, think that's interesting part of the hand even though we weren't really asking or concerned with it. Bet now. Gonna have to edit this in a sec to see how much we have left.

Edit: Yep, jam

Do you usually do this? Seems pretty optimistic.

I think it's too pessimistic not to do so.

I've been following this with interest, because I would play KK as a bluff-catcher here, and would not try to barrel someone off of Ax. Unsurprising to me that H got called on turn barrel, but maybe I'm not aggressive enough in these spots.

I see the temptation to check but you gotta ship this 100% of the time.

You want to check when villains get decent cards to bluff, you block alot of their value range, they have alot of missed draws, etc.

So like if you had AA here and flop had two hearts and river was a J, I would check.

It is unfortunate some of his range isn't even top pair but for the part that is, ship the nickels imo.

Jam. Nice bink.

I wouldn't call an eight-outer drawing for two streets a cooler. It's a very realistic holding for villain, especially given the action. If he gives you AK, then it's a great card for him.

Not gonna jump in this late or quote other posts. Just say I like posts by OP, Avaritia and Attogcinc. Thems prolly some good regional thread posters.
GO BLUE !!!

You and I have different definitions of "cooler." When I say it's a cooler, I just mean my hand is too strong to fold/worry about getting value owned.

In other words, I effectively have the second nuts. If I have the second nuts and lose, it's a cooler.

To me a cooler is a setup hand that usually gets all the money in early, like top set vs middle set on a dry flop or running into AA when you're short stacked in a tourney with KK.

Your hand played out multiple streets and you had a fair bit of money behind relative to the pot on 5th street.

Sorry that QT got there.

I like Alex's definition more and the result of the hand more.

It seems like to me a lot of guys call raises with small pp and suited connectors. I would throw a c-bet out here for sure and then give up if necessary.

Your definition is wrong and your predicted outcome of the hand is wrong

Well, I'm glad my read is wrong.

NH (I think).

I like leading the flop in this spot much more than check/calling. Button has so much worse/many draws that he can and will call with. Once you check/call the flop you "always" check the turn, this let's him check back and get to the river with plenty that would call two streets.

I like how you played the flop & turn, though I'd bet a bit more ott ~$140

River seems like a jam...my only question would be how do you think villain plays 2p -2p+ on the turn? I'd expect a raise a lot, absent this here, it's likely going to be tough to get called and win....

IHDK what a 10/20 - recent tourny winner's button over limp/call range would look like though?

So we're clear, I'm saying I think he is simply a 1/2 player that can afford to play much higher. I do believe he shot took 2/5 from time to time pre-tourney win though.

Looks like a unanimous decision on jamming river. I agree with what one reply was saying that he's likely calling anything on the river that he would bet when checked to. In the moment though, I did not have that thought. Results below:

BTN ($525)
MP ($450)
SB Hero ($725)

MP limps, BTN limps, Hero makes it $30 with KK MP calls, BTN calls.


Flop ($95)
AJ8

Hero bets $55, MP folds, BTN calls.

Turn ($205)
AJ8 3

Hero bets $110, BTN tanks for about 30 seconds, and calls.

River ($425)
AJ8 3 K

Hero checks after about 20 seconds. BTN bets $115. Hero shoves, BTN shrugs and calls after about 5 seconds. Hero shows KK, BTN mucks.


So we never get to know for sure what he had, I'm guessing with sizing on the river it was a weakish two pair? Thanks for the feedback, guys. This hand was over a week ago and I still find myself contemplating the merit behind different lines.