This hand went down during my summertrip to Vegas, and really got my itch going to make my first PAHWM thread and see how it goes. There is a couple of decision points that could go either way i think, so i try this format for once.


Villain 1: 350$. Middle aged white guy, playing relatively tight and have a weak capped limping range. He is doing the classic raising all his premium hands+ limping all his mediocre and weak hands. I dont think he plays an important role in this hand, just mentioning some basic info to give a complete picture as possible.

Villain 2: 800$ Main villain in this hand. Aggro asian guy in his late twenties/early thirties if i have to guess. Hero have been observing him at this table since he sat down like 2-3 hours ago (big stack at the table+ he gives off the grinder vibe on many levels), and havent yet been able to decide if he is really good or if he is just being aggro and sunrunning. At the very least i would describe him as competent. Anyway the table seems unable to adjust to his aggroness, and just keeps limp calling his 15$ preflopraises then check-folding to his C-bets on the flop. Fires the double barrell at high frequenzy also if his flop C-bet gets called. He have a really high preflopraise frequenzy, he is isolating limpers routinely in position with a very wide range of holdings including stuff as 9-10 off and 4-6 suited.

Hero: 320$ Being extremely carddead the whole time basically, just whiffed couple of flops with AQ and a small pocket pair+ had to fold 99 when a nitty OMC 3 bet big pre. Likely tight passive or even weak/tight image at this point in the game for the more observant players. Havent been involved in any big pots at the table since sat down.


On to the hand. Villain 1 limps. Villain 2 is on the button and makes his standard isoraisesize of 15$. Hero is in the BB and looks down at KJ

Hero?

Seems like an OK spot to make it $50 to go. I don't mind flatting though either.

$45/fold

Call, pot control for now, KJs is very playable PF.

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has anyone 3b v2 yet?

mostly making it $50 here

Any option is OK here. Raising to try and steal an obvious isolation raise is OK. You can flat and see how the flop works but you are just deep enough to do that OOP. Your hand isn't so strong that you have to play, folding is fine also. I would consider it raise $50>fold>call.

Nope. Everyone is just mostly limping-then calling his preflopraises. From my perspective based on sitting at the table for 2-3 hours it seems like he is running over the table, and maybe (intenionally or not) exploiting the fact that people are passive nutpeddlers, and arent playing back at him unless they hit the stones.

I played against a person like this recently who was running over everyone with rags. I 3! with a hand like KJ and got 4! by the aggro and folded PF. If you 3! him here, would you call his 4!?

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50

Your 3 bet wasnt wrong just because you got 4 bet. LAGs get a real hand sometimes also. He probably just had a premium hand that time.

I would call here sometimes and 3 bet sometimes.

Against a loose aggro who hasn't faced a 3! yet, I do consider his potential PF 4! bluffs more than others. Just something to think about if you haven't seen how this villain responds to 3! PF situations.

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Ditto. Can go either way. I almost want to flat to keep him in, especially if he c-bets so often and will fire the turn. Seems as if V1 will be easy to play against.

3bet is fine if you are prepared to fire blank flops and not just give up.

If he's overcbetting flop and turn i like a flat pre to keep the worse Kx and Jx in his range as well as lower heart combos and allow him to barrel into us when we flop reasonable equity. If he is aware of your range in this spot he should perceive it as capped and if he's as aggressive as he sounds he might attack your capped range on lots of potential runouts. However I don't mind a 3b/f, if he's been running over the table and hasn't been 3b before he's likely to give it lots of respect and avoids playing oop vs someone who could potentially cage us on lots of boards. I think both are +ev but prefer flagging and playing poker postflop.

I'm flatting pre, and x/raising a lot of flops given his tendency to cbet very frequently.

With your image and villains image I am 3 betting from the BB.

I don't think this is a great hand to 'trap' villain with would prefer that with hands like Ax that have some better showdown value

I'm calling. I don't know if I'm really ready to go to war with KJs from the BB, OOP vs a competent BTN. But I'm willing to mix it up here.

My general plan is not to give LAG info, rather to play 'tricky' as I'm likely viewed as weak.

Whiff the flop... I'll float (check/call with plan to fire turn).

Hit the flop... I'll trap (check/call and re-evaluate on turn).

Are we wiling to stack off with an unimproved KJ here. Raising to $50 will create very shallow stacks. (SPR<3) I prefer a flat to keep SPR higher and ranges more open. Also if V1 happens to have been sandbagging a monster we can get out of the way cheap.

Seems like we can exploit him better by flatting pre and x/c our pairs and x/r our draws and 3 straight/3 flush boards that seem to miss his range.

Quite bad to 3b in this spot IMO.

First of all, unless he's "good", he's not going to realize that Hero is only 107bb deep, and he's probably going to call the 3b.

Second of all, since we expect V to call the 3b, we're going to be OOP for the hand, in a bloated pot, against someone who we have only seen aggression. We're in danger of folding the best hand post flop here alot.

Flat and try to flop some equity against a post flop range of strong 1p and PP hands.

yeah im just flatting here like always. KJo i would consider 3b as a bluff as its just much tougher to play OOP vs an aggressive player. but KJs i think is fine to play. I expect V1 to come along as well. if i flop a pair im just like x/c mode.

While I get the idea of raising the hand that plays worst postflop, you also have to consider the fact that there are 12 combos of unsuited KJ and only 4 combos of suited KJ. If you're 3-betting KJo, you're going to be 3-betting way too many hands. Only doing it with the suited variety is a good way to thin your 3-bet bluff range.

My position is biased, as I hate playing OOP. So I would flat pre & look to play poker once 60% of the board cards are revealed. You don't have to flop a made hand OTF to c/r.

On the flip side, you've been at the table for 3 hours & have established a Nit image. Since you didn't change tables, you're stuck with that & raising pre is a good way to take down $20.

You haven't been playing, so they don't know how you play. Therefore, you can't donk a flop of JJ4 because they've never seen you do that with only a flush draw & will fold.

When you check, they will ck the flop behind w/o a J & you make no $$.

You would have to count on flops like T97r with one , etc., which connects with a lot of drawing hands & gives you 8 outs & a BDFD. Then you can c/r & if no hearts - donk.

However, you're still trying to play "rock, paper, scissors" at the poker table when all they've seen you do is fold for the most part.

DISCLAIMER: I am not winning 10BBs+ per hour over my last 2500hrs, so I am not a Crusher.

makes sense, and i didnt say i would always 3b KJo here but just consider it.

but i would also assume that 3b most combos of KJo vs an aggro player's button open will be quite profitable. i guess it also depends on how much this player will defend against 3b.

i dont hate 3b KJs here, but i just prefer to flat and see a flop. if we whiff and just x/f so be it.

A lot of people ITT seem to be getting the OOP theory wrong.

If you don't like playing OOP with this hand, but still want to continue with it, then 3-betting is better than flatting. 3-betting results in winning the pot preflop and not having to play OOP a reasonable % of the time. By calling, we will ALWAYS be playing OOP.

Also, it's much easier to play OOP when the stacks are shallower, not deeper. So by raising, we make our OOP decisions much easier, not harder.

I would 3bet here close to 100%