In b4 fuzzy math retorts to slim's post. Ty for sharing slim - very informative.

why is 50k real job being compared to 100k poker though. it should be 50k v 50k or 100k v 100k

Because up thread people asserted 100k poker = 50k working for the man

Someone said working 2k hours per year in poker and making $50/hour was comparable to making $50k a year. I disagree on a $$ and cents basis and just provided background.

But yeah when my clients come to me thinking about going alone or whatever they generally are thinking about comparable incomes.

good break down. I'd say not including the bolded is a pretty big deal tho imo

Well sure but it's apples to apples at least. Obviously we could compare anything but have to make some assumptions along the way.

HEY! Can anyone offer me some advice or guidance on how to organize some sort of ledger (maybe excel, or just something simple) to keep track of my bankroll/expenses and so on?

I'm already using a tracking app on my smartphone to keep track of my results, but poker is becoming more and more a very significant source of my income (I'm basically learning and preparing myself to be playing professionally full-time or almost full-time), and I'm kind of at a loss for how to manage and balance my bankroll with my living expenses. Basically there's nothing for me to do but keep expenses at an absolute minimum, but I'd still like to keep track of everything, and ideally work out an optimal percentage of profits to PUT BACK into my bankroll, both for the comfort of having a larger roll (currently 21 100bb buy-ins), but also to save, eventually move up in stakes, and etc.

As I said I feel somewhat at a loss. I'm just trying to spend as little as possible and save as much as possible, but I don't really have a system. I have enough cash to cover my expenses for the next 2 months or so, but at a certain point I have this weird feeling like I don't know how to separate, even just psychologically, my bankroll from my "life roll". Like I say I come home one night and won 100bb that night. Great, I think, what now? How much of this is staying and contributing to my bankroll, how much needs to be taken to to cover my future expenses?

I guess I obviously need to work out my exact or near-exact monthly expenses, including EVERYTHING, which right now is just an estimation (I don't know exactly how much money I spend per month on food, for example, though I have a pretty close approximation of what I'm spending each month, total.)
So I need to start keeping close track of my expenses, is the bottom line. And then work with it from there.

Any advice? Cheers

I bank online, and any time I want to I can request a download of all of my deposits and charges in a format that is easy to put into a spreadsheet.

As far as your budget, I would recommend that you don't base on what you're spending right now, but what you think you can get away with spending. Say, give yourself $300 per month for food. I don't know how reasonable a number that is for you. It's about what I pay for myself. Then keep track of all your food purchases and make sure you don't go over $300 in any month. Food is probably going to be your most variable expense. What else is going to vary a lot?

At this stage, you don't have enough of a life roll to quit your day job yet. Most people recommend having six months of living expenses. So keep grinding until you have that. By then, you should have a decent idea of your winrate to determine if you can go pro.

I would do this recursively, so figure out your estimated monthly expenses and then keep track of your exact spend on a monthly basis and compare it to the baseline. After a few months, you should know where you are.

Also, you need to consider annual expenses, like say you spend $500 on Xmas gifts or $250 on dental, factor that in.

You also need to factor in an amount for unexpected costs. Say you have a car and you need that car, how much would it cost to get a replacement if it got totalled tomorrow? That kind of stuff.

So my 'go pro' figure would need to be x buy ins + y months living expenses + z emergency fund = total $$$.

In terms of organising this stuff, there are a million websites and budget apps out there, just browse around and find one you like. A spreadsheet would probably be fine but if you check out specialized programs, that will give you ideas of what you need to factor in or how to best organise the information to suit your circumstances.

yes you do. but i'm saying you're kinda cherry picking considering FL and NV aren't the only states a person can play professionally.. and there are only 4 other states that don't have state income tax.

and with a family, a self employed person is paying way more than 500/mo on insurance premiums.

Lol pension in the USA. Good thing we got interwebz to look up that archaic word.

And most jobs dont give free health insurance.

nice work slim

And is your wife a pro player too? Lol maybe she gets benefits. And with a kid or multiple kids AND being married you aren't taxed nearly the same. Idk exact numbers but for myself until I hit over 70k per year as a whole I'd owe pretty close to nothing in taxes. Everyone's situation is different so comparing "real job" 50k vs whatever amount in poker is silly. I know for me the positives far outweigh the negatives. But too many seem to be on a high horse telling everyone it's black n white for everyone and poker as a job is lol disaster

Can't wait to tell my state that I don't owe state income tax because I am not a pro poker player.

Or just move to the sunshine state!

Yeah this is basically what I'm doing -- keeping much closer attention to my expenses than I ever have before, and making sure I don't go over budget with anything if I can avoid it.

As for grinding until I have 6 months living expenses laid out in advance -- in an ideal world I could just put 100% of my profits back into my bankroll. However, I do freelance work (don't have a real day job), which has become less reliable (work more difficult to find etc.), and need poker to cover some expenses.

So I'm just still working out how much money I should/can be putting back into my bankroll for life savings/moving up, and how much I need to sort out to cover the necessary expenses. It's kind of a tough spot financially, but I'm feeling decent about it so far and managing pretty okay

You get to deduct half of SE tax also. The health insurance deducts on the schedule C. So in your example your the taxable income is 84k which comes to 56k cash flow and 24k taxes. IMO 10k expenses for a cash game player that lives near a casino is extremely high. I don't travel much so my main expenses might be $1200 for year subscription to RIO, and maybe some study material like crev, flopzilla, odds oracle, ect for a 1 time expense of $200-$500.

You can lower your tax liability by contributing up to 5.5k to tIRA and up to $37587 for solo 401k.

100k income with 5.5k tIRA and 18k 401k contributions, 6k health insurance write offs on the schedule C and standard single person deductions would give you about 47k cash flow and about 22k in taxes.

Without contributing to retirement accounts, 6k health insurance write offs on the schedule c and standard person deductions you would have 65k in cashflow and about 28k in taxes.

State taxes are not factored in these numbers.

Just noticed I had an extra $1175 expense on the schedule C when I ran all the numbers so the numbers will be slightly off.

I now have 7.5BI. Advice on how/when to go pro?

you've got a bigger bankroll than most lol live pros, so......nowish?

There are actually 5 other states without any income tax (7 total)

1: FL
2: NV

3: Alaska
4: South Dakota
5: Texas
6: Washington
7: Wyoming

And 2 additional states that only tax dividends and interest income

8: New Hampshire
9: Tennessee

Ironically enough, you cant legally play Texas Hold Em in Texas. At least not with a rake.

With reckless abandon

yolo, bro

I missed one state. Thank you. What about the other 43 (or 41 if we include NH and TN). 41:9. Cherry picking like I said.