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Old Today, 05:19 AM   #302676
IAmRobik
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

Dude sitting with 200bb shoves preflop over a straddle and like 5 limpers. gets called by 77 (only had 50bb), loses, and proceeds to shove the next 3 hands in a row. What are we calling with, closing the action, if we're 100bb deep? 200bb deep? Woke up with KThh the last time but couldn't pull the trigger and felt like a huge *****
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Old Today, 05:29 AM   #302677
DK Barrel
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

Yeah KTs is an easy call against ATC but maybe you don't know he's shoving just anything. He needs to be shoving close to 40% for it to be better than a coinflip, and at least 50% for it to be >55% equity. Was it possible he had anything decent on the 77 hand? Like if the board runs out AK854 and 77 is good that's a lot different than if it runs out 98642. Also maybe he tightens up after he runs up his stack.

I might have folded KTs, it's tough if you don't know for sure how wide he is jamming.
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Old Today, 06:39 AM   #302678
Petrucci
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

K10 suited easy peasy call if he shoved any two/blind. 100 BB or 200 BB doesent matter, unless you have small bankroll and cant stand the inevitable variance in those spots.
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Old Today, 06:46 AM   #302679
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

And If KT is the top of your range that week.
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Old Today, 06:51 AM   #302680
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

If he really has any two then calling 200bb is worth 47bb in equity. You just can't be afraid to gamble because you're never getting another spot that good in 100 hours.
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Old Today, 07:14 AM   #302681
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

FWIW i know several (winning) regs that have leaks when it comes to risk aversion, like often getting exposed in spots like this.

They want to simply play postflop and make the best hand (nutz if possible), so they can control the outcome of the hand as far as possible. They get shaky when they have to face variance that they can choose to pass on.

When a guy shoves 200 BB blind, and they are sitting there with A8 suited or K10 they freeze up and gets really uncomfortable- they might even just nitfold and pass up on the obvious +EV spot.
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Old Today, 08:15 AM   #302682
Axel Foley
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

I had a hand a bit like this a few months back in a 1/2 game.

Drunk woman in her 50s with tattoo on her neck sits down with four green chips. Limp, limp, she shoves, folds around she shows AQo. Few hands later she open shoves 105 in EP, gets called, shows JTo and loses to AJo. Rebuys, gets black chip, tries to shove pre from +1 but blocked by one chip rule. Says she's shoving any flop. Flop 97Ahhx. She shoves, gets called by NFD, turn comes 2c, river Jc, she has T8hh.

Next hand she has straddle for five. I make it 20 with A8ss in MP, folds to her, she shoves for 197, I think for a bit and call figuring I do decent against her drunk range but concerned that her ship could be stronger with 100bb and after just winning a pot compared to 50bb. Board comes T36ssd Td Js. I show flush, she slow rolls quad tens and cackles loudly.
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Old Today, 08:20 AM   #302683
Petrucci
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

Yeah i mean, if they arent shoving any two or blind before looking at their hand- then its another ballgame and alot harder to assign accurate shovingranges (and callingranges for us).

Its another ballgame and dynamic also in the hand you mentioned when you raised first preflop and _then_ she reshoves (knowing that you raised it preflop and still want to shove).
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Old Today, 08:30 AM   #302684
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

Well yeah, but for all we know the guy in IAmRobik's post could have just been dealt AK the first time and 99+/AQ+ the next three hands hoping to get good action built around a tilted image.

We can never be certain that a villain is shoving close to ATC, and even if they say they haven't looked we can't really be certain of that, either.
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Old Today, 08:34 AM   #302685
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

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Well yeah, but for all we know the guy in IAmRobik's post could have just been dealt AK the first time and 99+/AQ+ the next three hands hoping to get good action built around a tilted image.
Yes sure, thats why its damn important that we pay freaking attention so we can know for a fact if villain is shoving blind or not.


All my posts regarding this subject is with the premise of we knowing that villain is shoving blind/any two.

Edit: If we arent shure of them shoving any two, or if we know they have looked at their cards we of course need to take that into account when making our decisions.
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Old Today, 08:41 AM   #302686
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

Well then that's an impossible premise. People lie about this kind of thing all the time, and between looking at your own cards and looking at eight other people you're not going to be able to know for sure that villain didn't sneak a look at his own cards at some point.
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Old Today, 08:47 AM   #302687
Petrucci
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

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Well then that's an impossible premise. People lie about this kind of thing all the time, and between looking at your own cards and looking at eight other people you're not going to be able to know for sure that villain didn't sneak a look at his own cards at some point.

No it isnt if you pay attention. If you cant verify for a fact (seen it yourself with your own eyes that villain is indeed commited to a shove before cards are dealt, or not looking at their cards before they make the shove), then you cant treat it as an any two cards shove. I mean, you better pay attention- cause you need to know what youre dealing with if youre thinking about calling off 200 BB pre with marginal hands like A rag or K10.

If you have a certain villain that is in this shove mood cause of tilt or whatever, you should not pay attention to all the 8 or 9 opponents, rather you should focus 100 percent on the villain that you may face a marginal decision for 100 or 200 BB pre against.

When replying to the K10 suited hand we was asked if its a call when villain is shoving any two, and the only way we can know if villain is indeed shoving any two is to verify if they looked or not. If they have looked or not made the allin shove before cards are dealt they can lie and play mind games and whatnot, and it cant be compared to blind shoving/truly any two shove.

Jeeeze, how hard can this really be.

Last edited by Petrucci; Today at 08:56 AM.
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Old Today, 09:00 AM   #302688
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

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Is it being streamed on twitch?
Today, Day 1 of the Super High Roller Bowl is being streamed on Twitch, Youtube, and Facebook Live. However, subsequent days will require a subscription, which is $10/month. If today's stream looks good then I'll be getting a subscription for the next 2 months in order to watch WSOP action...most importantly to watch the Main Event which is streaming live this year (they'll have a few hours on ESPN/ESPN2 everyday but will stream the rest on PokerGo.
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Old Today, 09:01 AM   #302689
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

If someone says casually I didn't look then it's a good bet he has aces.

I fouled that one up tonight when he $8 otb, I $25 from straddle, he shoves 200. I noted he had just rebought and called. board xxx K A. and he says "aces are good."

slowrolled KKK ofc
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Old Today, 09:08 AM   #302690
Axel Foley
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

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Originally Posted by IAmRobik View Post
Dude sitting with 200bb shoves preflop over a straddle and like 5 limpers. gets called by 77 (only had 50bb), loses, and proceeds to shove the next 3 hands in a row. What are we calling with, closing the action, if we're 100bb deep? 200bb deep? Woke up with KThh the last time but couldn't pull the trigger and felt like a huge *****
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci View Post
FWIW i know several (winning) regs that have leaks when it comes to risk aversion, like often getting exposed in spots like this.

They want to simply play postflop and make the best hand (nutz if possible), so they can control the outcome of the hand as far as possible. They get shaky when they have to face variance that they can choose to pass on.

When a guy shoves 200 BB blind, and they are sitting there with A8 suited or K10 they freeze up and gets really uncomfortable- they might even just nitfold and pass up on the obvious +EV spot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci View Post

When replying to the K10 suited hand we was asked if its a call when villain is shoving any two, and the only way we can know if villain is indeed shoving any two is to verify if they looked or not. If they have looked or not made the allin shove before cards are dealt they can lie and play mind games and whatnot, and it cant be compared to blind shoving/truly any two shove.

Jeeeze, how hard can this really be.
The first post said nothing about shoving blind with any two. It said that villain had shoved four straight hands. You apparently jumped to that conclusion, and the inconsistency between the original premise and your new conclusion is making the discussion difficult.
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Old Today, 09:18 AM   #302691
Petrucci
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

What makes it difficult is your nitpicking, derails, trouble with following a decent redline in the discussion- and failing to listen to the important points that ive made. Exactly what is the case in your hand history thread the other day, where youre jumping across the most important aspects worthwhile reflecting on. Where you got totally caught up in a multistreet FPS bluff, when you had totally misranged your villain preflop 3 betting range wich is far far more important to spend time on.

But yeah, i stop this discussion with you here cause i dont wanna fill this thread up with garbage semantics, and meaningless jabbing between the two of us.
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Old Today, 09:37 AM   #302692
BiteMeFish
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

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no thanks.....I don't like big butts and I cannot lie
Perhaps you'd prefer if she put 'em on the glass?

Spoiler:
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Old Today, 09:52 AM   #302693
Axel Foley
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

Ok.

So disagreeing with any of your points is blasphemy, and I should say three Hail Petruccis before I go to bed tonight. Got it.
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Old Today, 10:02 AM   #302694
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

Welcome to the Frozen North.
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Old Today, 10:05 AM   #302695
Lapidator
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

So much hate I sense in you.
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Old Today, 10:07 AM   #302696
Lapidator
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***



Lol, guy recollecting balls to hit again at the driving range.
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Old Today, 10:11 AM   #302697
Axel Foley
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

Well that's one way to save money.

How often do you golf, Lapi?
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Old Today, 10:16 AM   #302698
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

Not sure what I'm doing rises to the accurate description of golf... . .


But 20 times in 2015. 0 times in 2016.

First time hitting balls this year today.
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Old Today, 10:22 AM   #302699
Lapidator
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

Needed a set to leave up at my place in ski country so yesterday I went to the used sports equipment shoppe and bought 4 random irons. 4, 6, 8, 9. $35. Two were essentially brand new.

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Old Today, 10:24 AM   #302700
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Re: ***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

I'm playing green valley ranch, CO in 30 minutes.

Home of the world record longest ace, 517 yards par 5.
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