***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

[PokahBlows]

Originally Posted by DeuceKicker

I keep saying... stop-losses are for whimps (actually, they're fine if you have tilt problems). I was in for 2000 last night, down 1700 at my lowest. Ended up +950.

What's your buyin? I had to play a super long session I didn't play on friday. Its hard to fold TPTK/overpairs with 60bbs.

[DeuceKicker]

Originally Posted by SeaUlater

Do you keep a well documented record of your sessions?

Try running a report to see how you fare if you have a stop-loss.

I have less than 300 hrs since switching to NL, and during that time I'm running pretty hot (only 11bb/hr, but that's higher than my skill level would warrant), so basically the few times I've been in deep, I've either ended in the positive, or a very small loser and a stop-loss would drastically lower my winrate.

My limit results cover a few thousand hours, and I remember looking at that factor once and concluding that a stop-loss in limit would have also lowered my winrate. That's limit, though.

Overall, I think I'm helped by not having huge tilt problems. Most times when I'm in deep, it's getting pretty late, and I think my opponents' games deteriorate worse due to fatigue than mine does to minor loss-induced tilt.

Originally Posted by PokahBlows

What's your buyin? I had to play a super long session I didn't play on friday. Its hard to fold TPTK/overpairs with 60bbs.

The Bike's 5/5 300-500 buyin. I buy in full for 100BBs. Technically I can't top off for less than 300 or it's considered a short buy, but I keep some white (100) chips in my pocket and sneak them into my stack when I'm down 200.

I had a decent table last night in that there weren't many short-stackers.

I was down 1500 within a couple hours. Couple suck-outs and I thought my good run was over. Then in less than an hour I get it all back and I'm up 500

[PokahBlows]

Oh ok, yeah on this level a stop loss should only be when you can't play well being down. If you can shake off losing pots like missing shots in basketball, then you should be fine. 100bb cap is different if you had no cap and was down 3 400bb buyins or something in that window.

When I first started I would get this burning feeling when I would be down 3 buyins. I don't get that anymore.

[ikestoys]

Betting is LDO better in the 996 hand. ainec.

[SeaUlater]

All I am saying is that we needed more information to say which would be better.

[ikestoys]

Only extreme info that is very unlikely would make it close.

[ashley12]

On phone but bet 996 hand not close imo

posting to remind myself to get to this thread tomorrow and address some points

[SeaUlater]

With the implication that we should always bet 66 on 996 board is suggesting to me that there could be a cheat sheet for llsnl to always do something without consideration of anything else.

Perhaps you guys could develop one?

[ikestoys]

errr itd be pretty easy to develop a cheat sheet that would allow someone to beat a llsnl game for 3-4bb/hr

[SeaUlater]

I also find it discouraging that you guys would actually find this to be acceptable as start of a strategy post:

Originally Posted by betgo

2/5nl 6-way limped pot. I have 66 utg and $475. FLOP comes 996 with a 2-flush. Check or bet?

[jack492505]

Originally Posted by SeaUlater

Stove it then get back to me...

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

148,041,432 trials (Exhaustive)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
AJo	46.60%	64,477,608	9,225,456
QJs	29.05%	42,172,008	1,897,092
A9s	24.35%	32,166,360	7,983,876

Don't feel like going back and looking at the $ amounts to calculate equity out. But getting your money in 3ways with nearly 50% equity is so retardedly +EV.

Obviously we are going to be up against a range with some much stronger hands in it so we won't always be in such perfect shape. So without more information I can't really say if its a good play. It seems like it probably will be. But you certainly can't categorically call it a bad play given the information you have.

Not wanting to get a lot of money in PF because they play poorly postflop is really just saying "They are giving away money postflop, so we shouldn't take the free money preflop".

In a lot of scenarios you are correct, we don't want to 3/4 bet super light pre-flop because it tigthens their ranges to the point that we aren't able to exploit them postflop. But if they are calling that light (and still calling with hands they are going to make mistakes with post-flop, like A9) that may no longer be the case.

[SeaUlater]

Originally Posted by jack492505

Don't feel like going back and looking at the $ amounts to calculate equity out. But getting your money in 3ways with nearly 50% equity is so retardedly +EV.

Obviously we are going to be up against a range with some much stronger hands in it so we won't always be in such perfect shape. So without more information I can't really say if its a good play. It seems like it probably will be. But you certainly can't categorically call it a bad play given the information you have.

Not wanting to get a lot of money in PF because they play poorly postflop is really just saying "They are giving away money postflop, so we shouldn't take the free money preflop".

In a lot of scenarios you are correct, we don't want to 3/4 bet super light pre-flop because it tigthens their ranges to the point that we aren't able to exploit them postflop. But if they are calling that light (and still calling with hands they are going to make mistakes with post-flop, like A9) that may no longer be the case.

In an online world, I would accept such risk all day, because I know that I can put in the volume to come out ahead.

On the other hand, in a live game, such risk is simply not warranted "IMO", considering several other factors involved, and I could go into them if necessary, there are simply better spots than to risk with a hand such as AJo.

My point is that we shouldn't be result-oriented, and that playing pre-flop range war IS not the best way to crush LLSNL.

[jack492505]

Originally Posted by SeaUlater

I also find it discouraging that you guys would actually find this to be acceptable as start of a strategy post:

What do you want us to do? Execute him? Ignore his post?

Yes, its a ****ty OP, but we didn't make it.

[ikestoys]

Originally Posted by SeaUlater

In an online world, I would accept such risk all day, because I know that I can put in the volume to come out ahead.

On the other hand, in a live game, such risk is simply not warranted "IMO", considering several other factors involved, and I could go into them if necessary, there are simply better spots than to risk with a hand such as AJo.

My point is that we shouldn't be result-oriented, and that playing pre-flop range war IS not the best way to crush LLSNL.

lol and now you're turning down free money.

[jack492505]

Originally Posted by SeaUlater

o.

My point is that we shouldn't be result-oriented, and that playing pre-flop range war IS not the best way to crush LLSNL.

Playing a style where you take every edge available to you is the best way to crush any game. For a lot of people, you may be correct, you wouldn't want to pursue this edge because its to high variance and most people don't have the BR or tilt control for it to be a good idea to put stacks in in a fairly high variance spot.

If you are interested in absolutely maximizing your win-rate and you don't have to worry about those factors, you should be pushing those edges. By the the way, the edge in that hand is not at all small. you are risking $500 to win $1000 with 46% equity.

460-270= $190. Thats a really huge equity advantage. And its hard to imagine that flatting PF will net you anywhere near that kind of edge.