***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

[jack492505]

[ ] set mining

[Bluegrassplayer]

flatting queens there is pretty awful imo

[SeaUlater]

Originally Posted by jack492505

[ ] set mining

Two kings on the board and they both put villain on AK?

[PokahBlows]

Lol, at people thinking flatting queens is awful.

[SeaUlater]

So explain to me the logic of flatting pre when you know villain is going to cbet almost always.

Only explanation is that you put villain on AK and don't want to flip for it.

[jack492505]

I think its pretty tough to assume that you are going to take a 4bet pot 3ways and someone is "almost always" going to cbet. And that's not a great flop.

There may be an argument for 5betting. But saying that just because QQ folds the flop he was "set mining" is a little silly.

[PokahBlows]

Well it depends on the board texture. The board saved Frank. Say the board came 10 high. Frank cbets, bryce raise's and Dc raise him.

So the logic behind playing aggressive player who cbets 95% is too flat to keep his air in and raise favorable flops.

[SeaUlater]

Obviously I am taking the hand for its face value and what pokah said about villain, which is an aggressive player.

I don't know too many aggressive players that 4-bet pre and check to evaluate the flop.

So if QQ and JJ are good players, then they must have put villain on either AA or AK. With two kings on board, it's hard to put someone on AK, so then they must have just stuck with the original idea that villain's 4-betting with AA...thus they're set mining.

[SeaUlater]

Or QQ put JJ on KK when he called, and when QQ folded, JJ put aggressor on QQ+.

I am really not putting that much thought in this, so don't make this out to be more than just for fun.

[Bluegrassplayer]

I doubt the 4 better is cbetting 100% of flops if it's a 3 way pot.

By flatting the Queens you just stack yourself against aces and kings just as much, and then you get outplayed like this sometimes.

[PokahBlows]

Well bryce can't 5bet because he knows DC has a hand behind him. DC knows bryce has a hand and wants to see a flop. They're all aggressive players. Frank and DC are 3bet monkey's.

[SeaUlater]

Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer

I doubt the 4 better is cbetting 100% of flops if it's a 3 way pot.

Probably not, but it will be a very high number nevertheless.

How often do you see an aggressive live 4-better just giving up the hand by check/fold or check/call?

[ashley12]

Originally Posted by jack492505

WTF at drinking when you have children being bad? I mean if you drink alcoholically it would be bad. But not drinking generally. I assume you mean the former. And FWIW I don't drink or have kids so I don't have a horse in this race.

And that 4bet seems like bigtime spew.

Drinking 8 cans a day (as got mentioned somewhere) while I am presuming being the current carer of a child that is less then 24 months old (had to leave computer to sort her/him out) is pretty bad.

Having like 2 standard drinks a few times a week is obviously completely fine.

Originally Posted by PokahBlows

Well it depends on the board texture. The board saved Frank. Say the board came 10 high. Frank cbets, bryce raise's and Dc raise him.

So the logic behind playing aggressive player who cbets 95% is too flat to keep his air in and raise favorable flops.

If DC raised Bryces flop raise with just a naked pair of jacks would be even worse spew in a 4bet pot with Bryce raising the 4bettor. Unimaginably bad...

Apperently they are 250bb deep ($2500) and it was a 4bet to $350. Calling isnt bad, but I think you would need to call one bet at least on most boards, i.e you arent purely setmining.

[SeaUlater]

I thought it was 250bb 3/5, not 5/10.

[jack492505]

Again, you seem to be assuming that the guy with QQ knew that they were going to be taking a 3way flop. The multiway cbet is much stronger. And he can be calling with QQ even though he thinks Frank has a much wider 4betting range.

For example he can think that he 4bets 99+, AJ+, KJ+ and some random air. This is obviously very wide. A 5bet is profitable. But Its probably not optimal to 5bet if he is only going to continue with JJ+ and AK or whatever.

So he decides not to 5bet because he can make more money by taking the flop with a wider range. Then he gets a caller behind. Then he gets a relatively bad flop and gets bet into. He wasn't "set mining" the flop just happened to be one of the ones he wasn't stacking off on.

And please don't respond to this with "lol that 4bet range is too wide". Of course it is. It was just for ease of example. You can narrow it. As you narrow it gets less and less likely that 5betting is a good idea though because his range for continuing against a 5bet gets tighet and tighter. They're also pretty deep so setmining may have been okay anyway.