***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

[poke4fun]

What was the previous context that he open limped UTG with A4o?

I just don't see any decent player limping UTG with A4o.

[ikestoys]

Villain wasn't UTG. He limped in late MP. Think HJ or the one before HJ.

[fun101]

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Villain wasn't UTG. He limped in late MP. Think HJ or the one before HJ.

still limping A4o from any position is pretty bad (excluding the sb if there is a ton of limpers)

[ikestoys]

That's not in dispute?

[poke4fun]

Not sure where I read UTG, lol.

Anyhow, I just don't think any decent villain would limp/call with A4o in a HU situation against another decent opponent.

So if we remove A4o from his range, you will need 20% FE to make the shove EV+.

Once we settle the range, then I guess we can argue whether there is 20% FE in this spot.

[venice10]

I think some of you are looking at this wrong. The pot is $165. Hero has $455 left. The question is not just the odds, but what Hero can earn going forward. The pot has dead money in it to make up for the slightly underdog status

Option 1: Shove
Assuming an automatic call, Hero needs 46% equity to make this neutral. Hero has 46% equity. Therefore shoving is neutral (well, slightly positive due to rounding).

Option 2: Call
Hero gets 2:1 to call. The problem is that on the turn, Hero's equity turns to mush and can't get odds at that point to call if he misses. If he hits, he can't get paid off. Not a good option.

Option 3: Fold
OK, just covering the bases. Folding would be terri-bad.

Result: This is a shove even if there is no FE of better hands. If there is air in the villain's range, he's not putting more money in anyway, so Hero doesn't lose anything. A call allows the villain to collect money while ahead and escape if he becomes behind.

[quesuerte]

Originally Posted by venice10

I think some of you are looking at this wrong. The pot is $165. Hero has $455 left. The question is not just the odds, but what Hero can earn going forward. The pot has dead money in it to make up for the slightly underdog status

Option 1: Shove
Assuming an automatic call, Hero needs 46% equity to make this neutral. Hero has 46% equity. Therefore shoving is neutral (well, slightly positive due to rounding).

Option 2: Call
Hero gets 2:1 to call. The problem is that on the turn, Hero's equity turns to mush and can't get odds at that point to call if he misses. If he hits, he can't get paid off. Not a good option.

Option 3: Fold
OK, just covering the bases. Folding would be terri-bad.

Result: This is a shove even if there is no FE of better hands. If there is air in the villain's range, he's not putting more money in anyway, so Hero doesn't lose anything. A call allows the villain to collect money while ahead and escape if he becomes behind.

I'd disagree with the first bolded assumptions. Villains don't play perfectly. You then contradict these assumptions in the second bolded part.
He is barreling with air to make us incorrectly fold AJ in your first paragraph and c/f in the second.

[EN09]

Game got crazy last night... 1/2nl bar game, no rake no drop, just tipping. One hand of Omaha hi-lo, with the dealer paying $3 in blinds, when the button came by him. Straddles up to $50 from anywhere, with the standard straddle of $16.

Pots were up to $800 at times, a few were down 1k+. I walked away down $40. One tilted "reg" was shipping 200BB's with 75ss because "I know I have live cards" and turning trips. Another older woman "reg" open bet called the 3b and went runners for a gutter straight and said, "well I turned the flush and straight draw what else could I have done" when she check-called a large flop bet on a dry A rainbow board.

Most hands were raised to 50BB's before the action got to the button ended up multi-way AIPF or on the flop drawing. The hands I saw most of the night were J4, T3, Q6 type of stuff... :/

I was 200BB's deep (normal BI) and managed to play a few small pp's and a QJss before I left for home. The game starts out pretty normal at 5 handed then just goes crazy sometimes depending on who shows up to play. I was waiting for something like AK, JJ+ preflop and had the mid to make my normal raise $12, and just shove or go with it when 3b.

All but two others were just getting it in pre most of the time and then the comments started, "Yeah he's gonna wait for aces and win $18 when he comes in LOL"... No way I'm being dragged into their game of shipping and flipping.

Last Tuesdays game stayed fairly normal with some straddles of $16, but you were able to play some poker, play for draws, bluff a bit and I walked off with 250BB profit.

Am I wrong here? Do most of you ship KQss, ATss, AJ against 3-4 others pre?

[Garick]

Do most of you ship KQss, ATss, AJ against 3-4 others pre?

If it dominates their ranges, sure. That rarely happens, but if they are really shoving 75s type hands, I'd get it in and embrace the variance.

[poke4fun]

Originally Posted by venice10

I think some of you are looking at this wrong. The pot is $165. Hero has $455 left. The question is not just the odds, but what Hero can earn going forward. The pot has dead money in it to make up for the slightly underdog status

Option 1: Shove
Assuming an automatic call, Hero needs 46% equity to make this neutral. Hero has 46% equity. Therefore shoving is neutral (well, slightly positive due to rounding).

I guess we disagree on the scenario.

I just don't see a decent player making a move OOP at a very small pot by bluffing with 20% of the effective stack against a hero that is perceived to hit the flop pretty hard.

I also don't see a decent villain limp/calling OOP in a HU scenario against decent opponent without at least Axs, or PP.

So combining the two, I am pretty sold on our equity around 38%, thus a shove followed by an auto call makes this -EV.

[8o8]

bah.. whatever you guys are talking about.. is BORING THE **** out of me

ahahaaaaaaaaa it's FRIDAY bitches

[ashley12]

Saturday here and my Friday sucked

[poke4fun]

I shoved 6x in two hours today.

Up about $300 and decided to leave before pissing it away.

The Friday effect.

[PokahBlows]

Originally Posted by poke4fun

I shoved 6x in two hours today.

Up about $300 and decided to leave before pissing it away.

The Friday effect.

Sounds like scared money to me. Unless you are in england, no way you should be leaving. I have not even started my session yet.

[8o8]

my session involves 12 cups and an 8-ft table. i have also not yet started