***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread***

[Shaffer]

Originally Posted by Clipper Titan

Hi all

I guess you see a lot of me. I have a [ ] short story I want to share and would appreciate some advice.

I have played and studied poker recreationaly for 2 years. Online where I was a breakeven tournament player and losing cash game player. I never applied myself. During that time I also played live cash games and several tournaments. I have been profitable at both, grinding $20 an hour at 2/5 in a highly raked game but for a small sample size. I still feel I make plenty of mistakes that I need to correct, which makes me think my $20/hr winrate could just be run good.

Anyway, I have always been employed and had earned decent money. I am 24, on 100k a year but as every day passes it appears I will soon be out of employment. The company I work for is losing money by the month due to the current global economic climate, there simply isnt enough work for us to do. My days are filled with 'doing time' in the office. I am now unhappy in my job which I used to love due to lack of work/things to keep busy. The future of the company depends a current negotiations to secure a short term but lucrative contract. We are underdogs but in with a chance. If it fails, we will fail and I wont be able to move anywhere in my industry. I'll be back at square 1. I am now considering whether or not I take on poker full time and attempt to make something of it.

I guess I just want to hear people say they do it. The room I play in (only one in the state) is pretty juicy but there are a few winners in the room I can tell. I wonder if theres room for 1 more full time winner? I have no doubt I would need to travel to play 5/10 and higher. There is a 5/10 game that runs a couple of days a week but its not sustainable.

I would be underrolled but not broke, something like 20k for 2/5. Is playing 2/5 for a living doable? It seems rough.

Just looking to hear experiences and advice from people who do it. Thanks for reading

Is it possible, yes, if you're good, you'll make your rent and won't starve. Is it advisable, I'm tempted to say no, but also aware that that would make me a hypocrite as I allowed an engineering degree to start collecting dust when I was 28 and spent 3 years doing the online grind, and can't say I'm a worse person because of it, but in a lot of ways it's one of those "hard lesson" type things. If you have the skill set for a $100k/yr job at 24 ****ing years old then it's hard to imagine you'd be better off as a 2/5 grinder, it's kind of a ****ty life, the variance is truly like nothing you could ever imagine, and for most people, your social life will go into complete upheaval.

I have to say that I much prefer having a good job and being able to piss around in the higher stakes because of it. If you're making $100k a year you can fly out to Vegas a couple of times a year, play 5/10 or 10/20, or enter into a high buyin tournament or two, and if you've got some skill maybe hold your own. If you're playing 2/5 for a living then entering into a $100 buyin tournament will make you feel like a bit of a degen because you can't stop thinking about how many hours you had to grind at 2/5 to earn the buyin and your spreadsheet detailing your ROR will tell you the hourly rate doesn't justify the added sigma to your variance.

Nobody here is your mother and can tell you what not to do, but it's a lifestyle that's easy to glamorize but that doesn't actually have that much glamor to it once you start seeing preflop 3bet merge ranges in your sleep.

[venice10]

1. The test is inherently unreliable. They work on the assumption, oversimplifying, that a truthful person will be completely calm and that a dishonest person will involuntarily show specific signs of stress.

2. If you're a criminal defendant, the police/prosecutors won't care that you pass a polygraph unless it was administered by their guy. And their guy is ALWAYS either a cop or an ex-cop, who has a cop's built-in bias that if you're charged, you're guilty.

60 Minutes did a piece on lie detectors years ago. They brought in a couple of firms that claimed police experience and good results. The cover story was that CBS had an expensive camera stolen out of a room and needed to figure out who did it. No camera was ever in the room or stolen. In each case, they told the guy administering it who they thought was guilty and no surprise, out of the people they tested, the ones suggested were "lying" about the theft.

[dhcg86]

Originally Posted by 11t

Like I get what you are seating I just don't think this can be construed as a miscarriage of justice.

agreed

[Shaffer]

Originally Posted by venice10

60 Minutes did a piece on lie detectors years ago. They brought in a couple of firms that claimed police experience and good results. The cover story was that CBS had an expensive camera stolen out of a room and needed to figure out who did it. No camera was ever in the room or stolen. In each case, they told the guy administering it who they thought was guilty and no surprise, out of the people they tested, the ones suggested were "lying" about the theft.

I'd contend that when administered without prejudice by a competent technician with appropriate filters for false positives, lie detectors work pretty well. The problem is that those conditions are basically never met in the legal system, so it's 100% understandable that they don't serve much purpose in law enforcement and prosecution.

Maybe not a perfect example of unbiased use

[1ns71nct]

OMFG, all I wanted to do was with he ****ing one drop after work and all it does is freeze every ten ****ing seconds. I wish I had a stop sign and a baby right now.

[venice10]

Originally Posted by Clipper Titan

There are 3 companys in my country (not USA, so no 'benefits' besides the pay) in this industry and we all know each other. My name has stigma around it (my father was a heavy hitter in this industry and has a lot of enemies, and all of his friends are in this company)

My chances of being hired in this country in this industry are 0%. I will have to relearn a new skill/job to be employed, let alone get 100k a year.

Well, that changes the equation a little bit. Given your age, you've probably never worked for anyone else but your father. The reality is that nobody knows if you're any good or not. The working assumption will be that you aren't.

That said, playing poker for a living is one of the most stressful, yet boring ways to earn money. I played it seriously for about a year to supplement my income and in the end decide to work at a job for less than my hourly because I hated it. If you have any capability to do anything else, you should avoid trying to become a poker pro. For every Doyle Brunson, there are thousands of players who don't make it long term in poker. Even Doyle admits that when he really made good money, it was because his poker skills were so far ahead of everyone else that he was just printing money. People actually believed that JTs was the best hand to have pf, for example. That just won't happen today.

I'll simply note that each of your three mods in this forum have had multiple careers in different areas. All required retraining and basically starting over. You're just going to have to do the same thing, understanding that $100k jobs usually don't go to 24 year olds with little experience.

[Clipper Titan]

Originally Posted by 11t

Listen as much as you hate your job, you'll hate being in a casino all the time more. I'd suggest that you really think about this,.gambling for a living is not a fun way to earn a pay check.

What industry and where? Your story is a bit unbelievable, no offense.

lol none taken, I understand it seems a bit cagy. I currently hate my job because basically there is no job for me here. Once we lost key several contracts, I was left to run a few basic admin jobs that can be completed in a day until 'things pick up'. Things are picking up, its been over 6 months and I nearly cant get out of bed in the morning.

We are in the maritime industry. I do have experience in another industry (logistics) that I worked in when I first got out of school. I have some contacts there, but the work is **** and the pay is bad. 2/5 seems a better option that 5am starts for $19 an hour hard labour. I wouldn be level entry, though I wouldnt be paid well at all.

Originally Posted by AmazonPrime

Bunch of us that have spent at least 1000 hours in a casino are telling you that you don't want to be in a casino for 1000 hours for several good reasons.

Yes the grass seems quite green on our side, but it's actually mostly moss =).

Yeah I certainly understand and have heard it before. Several quotes like "its hard spending your life hanging around 8 people dumber than you" etc. I do feel however I have a decent natural tolerance for casinos. I really do enjoy them. I know this would 100% fade away being pro, but I just feel I would handle it better than most people.

Ive worked all my life since I was 18. The monday afer school finished I was working. I've never had time to sleep in, do extensive travel (I've had week long holidays in Vegas, Hawaii and Thailand) or just be a bum. I think I want to do that for some reason.

Originally Posted by Shaffer

Is it possible, yes, if you're good, you'll make your rent and won't starve. Is it advisable, I'm tempted to say no, but also aware that that would make me a hypocrite as I allowed an engineering degree to start collecting dust when I was 28 and spent 3 years doing the online grind, and can't say I'm a worse person because of it, but in a lot of ways it's one of those "hard lesson" type things. If you have the skill set for a $100k/yr job at 24 ****ing years old then it's hard to imagine you'd be better off as a 2/5 grinder, it's kind of a ****ty life, the variance is truly like nothing you could ever imagine, and for most people, your social life will go into complete upheaval.

I have to say that I much prefer having a good job and being able to piss around in the higher stakes because of it. If you're making $100k a year you can fly out to Vegas a couple of times a year, play 5/10 or 10/20, or enter into a high buyin tournament or two, and if you've got some skill maybe hold your own. If you're playing 2/5 for a living then entering into a $100 buyin tournament will make you feel like a bit of a degen because you can't stop thinking about how many hours you had to grind at 2/5 to earn the buyin and your spreadsheet detailing your ROR will tell you the hourly rate doesn't justify the added sigma to your variance.

Nobody here is your mother and can tell you what not to do, but it's a lifestyle that's easy to glamorize but that doesn't actually have that much glamor to it once you start seeing preflop 3bet merge ranges in your sleep.

The variance thing scares me tbh. I dont think I've ever faced rough variance so I dont know how I would react. I am usually pretty balanced about it all, but hard variance seems to be a different beast all together.

Interesting point about the tournament buyin. I do play tournaments and believe I'm profitable in them. I wonder how I would treat them if I was grinding for $20 an hour. Interesting point that I'll give lots of thought too.

I would much prefer the job I am in now than playing poker for the living. The hours are great, the industry is great and competitive and its a good way to spend your time, however I feel I wont have that option come the end of the year. I have one other skill, and thats poker.

[iLikeCaliDonks]

Originally Posted by 1ns71nct

OMFG, all I wanted to do was with he ****ing one drop after work and all it does is freeze every ten ****ing seconds. I wish I had a stop sign and a baby right now.

Your not the only one, I stop watching it. Worse stream ever, idk if too many people are watching but since I woke up its been crap and tilting.

[Clipper Titan]

Originally Posted by venice10

Well, that changes the equation a little bit. Given your age, you've probably never worked for anyone else but your father. The reality is that nobody knows if you're any good or not. The working assumption will be that you aren't.

That said, playing poker for a living is one of the most stressful, yet boring ways to earn money. I played it seriously for about a year to supplement my income and in the end decide to work at a job for less than my hourly because I hated it. If you have any capability to do anything else, you should avoid trying to become a poker pro. For every Doyle Brunson, there are thousands of players who don't make it long term in poker. Even Doyle admits that when he really made good money, it was because his poker skills were so far ahead of everyone else that he was just printing money. People actually believed that JTs was the best hand to have pf, for example. That just won't happen today.

I'll simply note that each of your three mods in this forum have had multiple careers in different areas. All required retraining and basically starting over. You're just going to have to do the same thing, understanding that $100k jobs usually don't go to 24 year olds with little experience.

Thanks for the reply.

I have worked with and under different people in my life. I had earned my stripes in a different industry for 3 years and then was asked by my father to come accross and work in his industry though he was never my boss. I worked directly under the general manager and we never really got along, but he applauded some of my work and credited securing a key contract to me for my work. /brag

I do believe I would be an asset to any company I worked for. I just have a fear of going back to the bottom of the food chain I guess.

You've given me lots to think about, appreciate it

[AcePlayerDeluxe]

Wsop just said on Twitter they are aware of the stream issues and are workin on it right now. Should be fixed shortly.

Hellmuth just about doubled up.

[AcePlayerDeluxe]

Nevermind... Hellmuth just lost those chips back. Wiiii

[AmazonPrime]

Just about once a month there is a serious post from someone that wants to play poker for living, and it's almost always the same thing, no matter what anyone say, they want to try it for themselves.

I think we should just sticky a story and move on.

[iLikeCaliDonks]

Originally Posted by Clipper Titan

Thanks for the reply.

I have worked with and under different people in my life. I had earned my stripes in a different industry for 3 years and then was asked by my father to come accross and work in his industry though he was never my boss. I worked directly under the general manager and we never really got along, but he applauded some of my work and credited securing a key contract to me for my work. /brag

I do believe I would be an asset to any company I worked for. I just have a fear of going back to the bottom of the food chain I guess.

You've given me lots to think about, apprecaite it

Your not fully grasping what he is saying. These are older dudes he is talking about. Until you have worked for 10 years or more at a job you won't understand. At 24 your just a baby. If I was you I would start with another company and play mid stakes like you used to. If you ever catch on then maybe you will be a poker pro.

With your mindset I just don't see it happening. You can't doubt yourself. Anyone that say poker is boring and stressful doesn't have the passion it takes.

Playing cards for a living is the best career in the world. If you don't have that mindset you have lost already.

[1ns71nct]

Can we move this junk, it is hard to chat about how tilting the stream is

[AcePlayerDeluxe]

Stream coming through quite well on the iphone