no sir.. i dont want to check it down - Page 3 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum - Live Poker Low-stakes NL

2OutsNoProb · 08-12-2012, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinLake

lol at snap call turn shove. It's a slow down and figure out if you have pot odds to call with ur flush draw. He has a flush here close to 100% of the time.

You flop c/r really puts you in a terrible spot in most situations. Even the worst players can look at a ddd flop and realize that top 2 sucks.

Agree with this. Really does seem like he flopped a flush and is scared of a younger guy hanging around to make a bigger hand via pairing the board/a 4th diamond falling. He flopped a flush here a lot of the time, not necessarily as strong as the K-hi one he had, but that doesn't matter since we're drawing to one to win either way.

The fact that he often showed up in other pots with nonsense hands and called river bets with bottom pair etc doesn't matter much here, since this is a $350 shove, and most of those were probably standard small pots. Shoving $350 means a lot in 1/2 NL on this type of board.

2OutsNoProb · 08-12-2012, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au4all

Villain says this: "do u want to check it down?

It sounds more like successful manipulative language than a desire to check it down.

C'mon. You're overthinking this just because it's live and we don't like folding a flopped straight with the nut flush redraw. Regardless of his wording, he has a big hand here that he's worried about getting drawn out on, and most of the time that big hand is a flush.

apokerplayer · 08-12-2012, 03:41 PM

It was some weird table talk, but I think OP nailed it when he surmised that because the guy was willing to talk at all (and say something weird at that) it meant strength. This is usually what I fall back on when it comes to table talk; if I can't figure out the meaning behind it, I look at:

a) how much talk is involved, because more talk generally means more strength
b) how weird or unexplicable is the talk, because generally the less sense it makes with the action, the more strong that player is

Of course this has to be player-specific and based on a player's past tendencies and perceived level of inexperience.

DevinLake · 08-12-2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garick

You have a straight and a draw to the effective nuts, V's speech is almost certainly a vulnerable made hand (so flopped SF and SFD are out), and it's 225 to call in a 580 pot. V would have to show you his hand for this to be a fold. You are 16% against his exact hand, and your call would be 27% of the total pot.

You don't think a V makes check down offer, but then jams a safe turn, with straights and sets ever? I think his range is like half weak flushes, half straights and sets, and a bit of weirdness like JdTx. Obv more made flushes are possible, but I can't see a realistic range that offers us less than 27%.

I'm very surprised he offered a check down with a hand that strong, tbh.

I disagree strongly with your range. It might not be a fold, but he has a flush>>than every thing else. There's no way you see hands other than flushes here 50% of the time.

DevinLake · 08-12-2012, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cUinAC

no i just felt like i crushed the board having the Ad with the striaght nobody can have the nuts(besides striaght flush) and im in the sb with 4 behind its almost a guarentee someone takes a stab at the flop on this particular table and i dont want to lead out and get all folds when i seemingly have the nuts with the nut draw

not much of this seems like solid reasoning for a c/r. Having the board crushed is not only not a reason to c/r, you don't have the board crushed at all, you are near bottom of ur value c/r range.

someone taking a stab could be reasonable reasoning, but there's some issues I have with it. A) I think the value of leading and getting 2-3 callers more than makes up for the value you get from c/r a "stab" and shutting everyone else out of the pot. B) live players "stab" small so there's limited value.

And again, you are at near bottom of your value range, and your equity won't be create against any hand that wants to play for stacks.

cUinAC · 08-12-2012, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinLake

not much of this seems like solid reasoning for a c/r. Having the board crushed is not only not a reason to c/r, you don't have the board crushed at all, you are near bottom of ur value c/r range.

someone taking a stab could be reasonable reasoning, but there's some issues I have with it. A) I think the value of leading and getting 2-3 callers more than makes up for the value you get from c/r a "stab" and shutting everyone else out of the pot. B) live players "stab" small so there's limited value.

And again, you are at near bottom of your value range, and your equity won't be create against any hand that wants to play for stacks.

this is actualy a really good point. In a way, i played it like i was bluffing and trying to get a fold when i really wanted more action and leading out probablly gives me a wider looking range then a c/r. i guess im really only worried about a flopped flush but i just dont like the idea of betting $12 and getting 3 callers and the board pairing on the turn. i would feel like i didnt protect my hand bc even though $12 is a pot sized bet its not goin gto get any respect so now ill be playing a guessing game if they were slow playing or hit a miracle card. hate being oop...