I just turned 22, so I often play against players 10-20 years older than me at my local 1/3 game. I typically don't say a word unless spoken to. I'm not rude, just quiet & focused on the game.

Lately, I've noticed times when this turns the table energy negative. Ex: Other players are laughing & engaging in conversation. I get involved in a big pot w/one of these players & the table goes quiet. If I win the pot, I often feel a negative energy lingering, bc everyone was likely rooting for the other guy. It's like the fun is slowly sucked away from the table.

Is this -EV for me? Is it better for me join in on the table conversation, even if it takes away from my focus? I'm only there to improve & make $$, but I don't want to put a target on my back.

In my experience, people gamble with people they like. I'm not saying you have to be non-stop chatter, but joining in once in a while with a laugh or a joke will go a long way with improving your image. When that happens, players call you down lighter when you've got a hand and will fold more to your bluffs.

it never hurts to at least be sociable and engage enough to make the game fun. it really is just a game- a gambling one at that and to recs - they want to play good, have fun, and bring home some money. We aren't going to help them with two of those objectives.

Short answer, probably a little bit. The bigger issue, though, is that you want the fish to have a good time and want to keep playing. You don't have to be a chatterbox, but throwing in occasional friendly banter is good for the game. If there's a TV showing any kind of sports, that's a nice easy topic of conversation. Asking people how the food/drink is always works. Just find a few easy types of comments to make that don't require much mental energy and allow you to keep paying attention to the game.

And if you're wearing a hoodie and sunglasses, stop doing that

How do you think players adjust to those they don't necessarily "like"? Sometimes I think I get called down lighter bc players don't want to be bluffed by me

Do you think with proper adjustments this image could be +EV? Since I'm 22, maybe I'm bound to be hated anyways..

I'll never be that guy.

Solid advice. I think it's definatley negative EV to not be some what social. The fish are their for that aspect of it. I think I'd just add that a smile every so often goes a long ways.

i think you will need to walk that line between being some what social-able and nice, and not breaking all concentration from your game. like DeathCabForTootie said, people like to gamble with people they like. I would assume its a bunch of people who play regularly and not tourists. if it was a touristy location, it doesn't matter in the long run.

I tried to play a local game very quiet and anti-social, and it didnt work out very well.

Are there TV's there with games on and such? strike up a convo about a game thats on, root for the team that everyone wants to win. buy a round of drinks for people after a big pot. might sound -ev, but if in turn they will gamble with you more, its def +ev.

So they are more likely to call bets? While also more likely to fold to bets?

Interdasting.

Op basically they will play you more seriously if you are taking it seriously. This isn't that good.

Ultimately if you have a good social personality some ppl can give you more action. Sometimes they give you a break when they have the nuts. It's to easy and big of an edge to pass up.


Zy

I could be wrong but it sounds like the table doesn't want to be run over by some young LAG punk. Don't really see how getting called down lighter is a problem if you're taking them to value town.

To clarify, when you're "one of the guys" they'll recognize when you've been playing tight and will lay down more, just like if you're LAGging it up they'll pay off more when you've got a hand.

Just an observation, no empirical evidence to back it up.

Thanks for this. It definitely matches up with my past experiences

Would they view me as a punk bc I'm young? A lot of the regs are tight/passive, so my game naturally falls closer to a LAG style.

Being called down lighter isn't a problem, I was wondering if you agreed w that statement based on your experiences

Grunch... although I'm not sure why lol.

If anything, I think my "young white twenty something y/o" image get's me paid more than anything, although where I play I am known by name to almost everyone and frequently talk while at the table (it's a small room).

But honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about it either way unless they start playing against you differently. And if you are really that worried, you could try talking at the table. It's really not that bad. Okay, actually some times it is lol. Especially if you are playing 1/1 or something. But yeah, just be polite and un-abrasive and if people are getting mad at you for winning then I guess that's their problem.

Mike Caro wrote a long time ago that when you are always serious, it isn't so much that they hate you but rather they start taking the game more seriously themselves. They will try to play better. That makes the game more difficult to win.

Changing your personality is difficult. You aren't going to become the life of the party. However, you can smile at a joke. Making jokes about yourself are good because you aren't insulting anyone else. When someone comments about a sports play on the TV, just say, "yeah, that was a great play." If you have your emotions in control, smile when you lose or fold. Tell the villain, "that was a nice play." Mean it.

When people don't see you taking the game seriously on the outside, they will relax too.

The only real +EV I see that you have to gain by being more sociable are:

- Players will softplay you if they like you and not try to take all of your chips when they have the nuts. (Many rec players are just happy to take down the pot and don't see the huge difference value bets make in their winrate, because they don't have a winrate)
- Many losing players play not just because they like to gamble, but they like the social nature of the game. The smaller the player pool and the more regularly you face the same opponents, the more important it is for the easy to read, loose passive fish to enjoy playing and have a good time.

I find that I also play better when I'm having a good time and not taking the game too seriously. Since watching TV / chatting is occupying my time I am willing to lay down hands even when I'm on a cold streak because I'm not dead bored.

You might consider also that laser focus 100% of the time will wear you down mentally as well. Being able to join in the fun with the table can go along way toward your stamina. Once you have a decent read on the table it's not necessary to be locked in every second. You can also try to divide focus somewhat. Keep an eye in the game while participating in the conversation.

Talkative players will also share their strategy with you:
- what they put you on
- they would have called your river value bet if it was $30 instead of $40
- they would never raise AK as a pre-flop 3bet

They'll show you their hands more and tell you what they had more..

You can be just as talkative but make sure you are selective with the information you share and mix it up (don't always tells the truth). Personally I like an image of a NIT because I find that getting in one successful big bluff per session can be a huge addition to my winrate so I never show bluffs, but often show the nuts.

I have a constructed outgoing, slightly loud, middle-aged semi-competent rec player persona. I put it on every time I'm at the tables, and it is worth a bunch. It's not so much acting as "fake it until you make it."

It keeps the game looser, and I get played at less seriously. I frequently get told during the hand what a V has by guys who are either trying to be nice to me and let me out cheap, or willing to gamble it up with me when they have a draw. Most of the value though, is just in keeping the whole table less serious and more fun, which is ++++EV. People spend like sailors when they are having fun.

If we are truly a "good player" we can talk, joke, BS, read a menu, toke a drink server, mess with the dealer, move the button, and STILL play +EV.

We can say "I was just kidding" as we fold to a check-raise, make fun of ourselves, and STILL be watching the players and the game.

Speaking as an OMC, I get way more action (on the felt, sadly, not the other kind) when I am sociable and a little gabby. And I get way more respect when I clam up, bet big, and bluff or semi-bluff my way to winning a pot.

Tells are over-rated. But a sociable player relaxes the opposition and I get more tells from those who poorly conceal them when they are relaxed.

Just sayin'.

It was once put to me that we are all like Steve Wynn, we are our own little casino. When it was put to me like this, I certainly took it on board and I know it is a huge +EV for me. I can give you a ton of examples, but let me give you one from Friday night just gone (just to show you that this isn't a once in a blue moon, this stuff happens regularly to me).

It was around 11.30pm and the heavily intoxicated punters were starting to roll in. I'm 300bb deep in a 2/3 game. A guy reaches the top of the list and is asking the floor manager where his seat is. He was actually on the list for the 5/5 game but when I saw him (Kevin is his name), I yelled out "Kev, come sit here".

Kevin is a rich businessman that comes to my neck of the woods twice a month. He is also a huge drinker and a huge gambler. The last time we played together we had a wild time, he lost his first buy in and then asked the table "If I go to the ATM and get $2,000 I will go all in for $300 (max buy in) as long as someone calls, as soon as someone doesn't call, I'll stop." Fair to say another gambler on the table called when one of the other players hadn't already with premium hands haha. Other than dropping a bundle, Kevin drank free all night that night because I bought him a beer the moment his glass was empty.

People say wow, you spent $60 on this guy buying him beer, why? Why? Because Kevin never forgets me, we are on a first name basis and the moment a seat came up next to me after sitting down last Friday he moved right in next to me to hang out, drink and of course he was to my right

On top of that, Kevin ran up a stack in a 300 cap game to $1,100, he then jammed it in blind, evidently with 74o when I had QQ. Sadly someone else had a stack of $400 and had AK and won the main pot. Had I dodged the A & K I scoop $2,200 on a 2/3 300 cap game, that is why I bought him beers and will continue to be a socialite on the table.

It may not be in your MO to be the life of the party but being a serious Sam will hurt your winrate, people that you want in pots with you are there to be entertained, so entertain them!

Cheers Mac

So much great advice in this thread. So from what I've read, I can still take the game seriously on the inside but it's significantly better for me to give the outside impression that I'm there to have fun?

In a nutshell yeah that's a good way to put it...

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This won't be for everyone but I nearly always drink a fair amount when I'm playing. It keeps me talkative and sociable, stops me getting bored and it can give me a "drunk gambler" image, especially if the cards cooperate.

Of course, if the booze has too big an effect on the way you play then it's probably not a good idea!

Works for some, I play regularly with a double Main Event WPT final tablist who always drinks. Guy is a weapon, for me it's a no, no, I get wild with my play!

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