Live is not online. You are only capable of playing an avg of 25 hands per hour so it can be very time consuming grinding that much up a 1/2 when you are potentially capable of beating 2/5 already.

I know live is not online - mentioned it in my first post.

I am 100% capable of beating 2/5, the game isn't all that much tougher, just bigger.
Lollive imo, I beat 25nl for like 3bb/100 and I feel like a supergod in live poker.

The point I was (poorly) attempting to make is not that the 2/5 game is harder. The money jump is significant and it effectively cuts my BR to 12 BI.

I was certainly a huge BR nit following fairly strict BRM (have played 2/5 but only in games I feel I have a massive edge), some of the posts ITT are making me want to just play 2/5 all the time and drop down at 4k or something.

1-3 at my casino is 500buyin, I wouldn't play with less than 5k


I like the idea, but in your examples, I'd consider 2,500$ bankroll person to be "taking a shot" at 1-2 as that is underrolled to me, idk tho.

I come from playing online, and used to bigger bankroll requirements, and have gone broke a handful of times, and don't ever want that to happen again, so maube I'm just a puss, sorry if I'm rambling.

A good rule of thumb is online is 10x smaller in terms of skill level, like 2-5 is same skill level as .25-.50 and 5-10 is like .5-1 or 1-2. If you can beat those it's infinitely easier. Sadly I decided to play 5-10+ heads up mostly online, so skills don't translate very well, and I degen money away alot. You will crush 2-5 if you beat 25nl online ring games, goodluck!

Edit: buyin with Max buyin tho, it's sooooo much more +ev, if you don't feel comfortable doing that then play smaller, max buying in live is ++++++++++ev times ten.

This post actually raises an important point for serious recreational players who are thinking about moving up: Your poker bankroll is not the segregated pile of money you have laying around somewhere. It is that pile of money PLUS any money from your life roll you are willing to spend on poker, even if that additional money will come from paychecks you haven't received yet.

Recreational players willing to replenish from their day job should be very aggressive in shot taking.

I apologize in advance that I will not be able to argue each of my points as much as i'd like or else my post will become TL;DR

#1 $2,500 bankroll for shot taking at 2/5NL is seriously ill advised, at a Minimum it needs to be $6K, if you can't grind $6k at 1/2nl or 1/3nl then you aren't good enough to play 2/5nl.

#2 You should not "jump" straight into 2/5nl even if you are rolled, you should slowly transition to it full time over a couple hundred hours of play (20/80 => 40/60 => 60/40 => 80/20 => 100%)

#3 There is a difference between 1/2nl and 2/5nl. Yes, the donks/fish may be the same but the quantity and quality of SHARKS is different resulting in different table dynamics (usually more aggressive tables) that may alter your winrate or turn you into a losing player until you learn to adjust/adapt. Lastly, there are psychological barriers when you jump up in money and this effects a lot of players initially until they get used to it.

#4 Just because you crush online play doesn't mean you will automatically crush the live game. There are several factors that many online players have problems with (search for the numerous 2+2 threads on live vs online play). If you can overcome those factors then yes, you can do well. But there are many online players who can't and turn into aggro maniac shove monkeys "repping" hands and 4-betting light because the pace is too slow and they can't help but spazz out due to lack of stimuli....

#5 Moving up in limit should be natural and organic. When the data and results PROVE you not only beat your current level but CRUSH it, then you should move up. Too many players have this donk belief that all their problems magically go away when they move up in limit hence the 2+2 joke about "move up to where they respect your raises"

#6 If you think playing with 25% of your BR on the table won't impact your decisions and style of play you are smoking some pretty good crystal meth and i'd like a hit. Hence needing a minimum of $6K to take shots and follow the transition plan outlined in step 2.

#7 Your bankroll is your most precious commodity as a poker player, it needs to be treated with respect and dare I say "love". You need to nurture it and grow it like a child, not risk it for cheap thrills and easy money because you don't have the patience to move up the correct way.

#8 I had to learn BRM the hard way. Having busted out several times and restarted from scratch clawing my way up from 1/2nl and 1/3nl to 2/5nl, I now have a healthy respect for what is required and will never play underrolled again.

Haven't read properly but I really like the idea of the post. Opportunity Cost hardly ever gets mentioned in relation to bankroll management but is really important.

From experience, I have taken my roll up to 2500 and taken a shot at 2/5. Needless to say i was playing scared money. Its not a good idea. You wont make poker plays. you will make is this hand gonna lose 20% of my roll plays. This is not good as most good 2/5 players will pick up on this and apply relentless pressure. Not the whole table this is live poker. But the 2 or 3 regulars that have 20-50k behind them and dont mind losing a couple buy ins if you happen to wake up with a hand you will play with your stack for. But remember your playing not to lose the 500. So how many hands will you actually play for your stack with.


I recommend at least having at least 6-10k before taking a shot.

I play in Vegas and am on a pretty sick downswing. I think my roll is slightly over 15k now and I want to move down to 1/2-3. I play hyper-aggro and have gross variance. Most 2/5 games here have a 1k max and I don't want to buy in for 5; I want to buy in full! So, I'm not comfortable with 15k behind me playing 2/5. I realize this is excessive to some people but this is what I do. Avoiding the mental struggle of losing a bigger % of my roll takes precedence over playing bigger. I like the time value that's brought up cause I've thought that way for a while. I started playing 1/2 live in July last year until I could move up, and it can be tedious when half the table has $100 in front of them and you feel like they're not on the same planet as you as far as skill. But then again, you'll begin to feel that way at whatever level you're playing as you improve and your roll grows. It's all the same ****.

This.

I am able to play 1/2 with a lot of confidence and proper aggression in knowing I am one of the better players at the table and that if I take a beat or 2 and I lose a couple of buy-ins my roll can take the hit and I can easily recoup. I have taken a couple of shots at 2/5, and I know I am not comfortable and that I am not playing my A-game.

I must say, though, that this is a very thought provoking and inspiring thread.

I think a big issue that everyone has overlooked is needing to top off your stack.

If you're taking a shot at 2/5, buying in for 500, lose a pot here and there, get down to 300, reload back to 500, drop another 200, reload back to five -- next thing you know you're in for 900 and 40% of your 2.5k roll is in play.

This problem has prevented me from taking a 2/5 shot since I know that it's not just a flat 500 like a tourney buy in. Either I need to reload if i drop pots early, or play lol40bb poker until I double or bust.

Getting comfortable at 1/2 is foolish. If you can beat 1/2 u can beat 2/5. Dont waste your time. Take calculated shots. Move back down to 1/2 even if you win, then take game selected shots at 2/5 again, and keep doin that till your out of 1/2.

And nice work OP.

This is the best way IMO, smooth slow transition.

Just this weekend I was planning on taking a shot at the 5/10 game with half of my entire bankroll. I wussed out but did take the 2/5 shot which I have done a few times. I did well.

why?

This just does not have to be true. Your "shot" at 2/5 does not have to be some loaded bust or not thing. You can get in get in a bad flow drop a couple hundred and just get out. The point of a shot is to get into a groove and flow. If you do not start with that flow, minimize losses, get up, and go back to 1/2 till next time. I know, I know this is hard for us to do etc.

Seems foolish to sit in a game, start to get reads, build an image, etc and then be forced to leave because you lost a standard spot that you would normally reload after.

Hoping you spike the right side of variance in the beginning of the session in order to continue and quitting when you don't strikes me as a waste of moneys.

This is the essence of a shot. Give yourself more opportunities at shots rather then putting all the pressure on one given shot. As soon as you dig back in for more monies you are creating a destructive pattern in your mind.

Playing 1/2 period is a waste of monies if you have the skill set and bankroll to replenish to beat 2/5.

Waiting to reach 6k-10k is nitty. Or your just a scared player.

So the shot is essentially just a shot at winning in the first hour or so of the session, not really sitting in to grind properly.

Although I guess you could work with a stop-loss reload limit.

Ever played a poker tourney b4? You dont have to reload after losing a pot necessarily. You can actually keep on playing if ur stack drops to 80, 50, 20bbs! Hell theyll even let u keep sitting there with 1bb! Crazy right?

Dont think we need to jump on OKFTT, since this is a very nonstandard situation. This is not your normal jump in stakes. 1/2 to 2/5 is the most important jump you make to start a career and there for requires nonstandard approach.

You are right, it sucks if you lose a standard spot and cant get anything going in the first little bit. Unfortunately that is variance in itself and is just too bad. You also didnt lose too much in the process. When you get into a groove and can get reads/etc. is when you are going to truly shine in this shot taking process, but this cannot be rushed. Something like a 200 dollar reload stop-loss on top of the 500 buyin is also not a bad idea.

Level?

My point is that it's -ev to play with a 20bb stack while you're taking a shot if you're refusing to reload. Is this not evident?

What about buying in for 350-400 at the 2/5. There really isn't anything wrong with 70BB and its far from "shortstacking a game". you guys may consider that an option.

I'll share a bit about my own experiences. I don't remember buying in for max when shot taking. Going 1/2 to 2/5, the first few shots were 400 buy-in even though I had >10k roll. Then moving to 5/10 where max is 2k, my first buy-ins were in 800-1000 range. More recently, moving to 10/20 (1k-5k) I have yet to buy in for absolute max. It has been 2k-3.5k.

Sorry for my facetious tone earlier.

Shoving 20bb w/ atc over a nit utg open would be -ev. Sitting w/ 20bb in and of itslef isnt -ev. Infact if the game is loose and u play a shortstack well it can be a way for you to get confortable at a higher stake / scout the regs / etc, with minimal risk.

But Im not trying to argue the merits of shortstacking. The point is its called taking a shot. You set aside 2 or 3 BIs and you play as well as u can and hope for the best. Being a br nit at the lowest stakes on the planet just isnt adviseable for any winning player imo.