1/2nl, 250eff, 7-handed. I've been at table about an hour and a half.

Villain ($250) BTN: middle-aged white woman, has been raising aggressively from mid and late position. I have not once seen her play from EP. In the entire time I've been here, she has played the button every single time, usually for a raise. Pre-flop raise ranges from $10 to $20 with no pattern that I can discern. Every time she showed down, she had two face cards. She folds to aggression post flop, usually muttering about getting sucked out on. Apparently she was stacked by some fish right before I sat down, and appears agitated.

Hero ($300) BB: 55yo white guy. I bought in for $150, played correct short-stack strategy, ground up to $220 without showdown, and now have bought in to table maximum of $300. Have been playing basic strategy except for one ill-advised float bluff against this villain, who snapped me off. I had to show because... well, I sucked out on her.

OTH:

Nit UTG folds
Couple of MP limps from loose passive players
Folds to Villain on button who bets $12
SB folds
Hero in BB has TT

Action?

This is a 3bet for value. Her button range seems pretty wide based on description. Make it 40.

These hands are never fun no matter how they play out, because unless you flop a set you'll end up in a spot where not much worse can call and better hands never fold. Regardless, I 3! here. I make it like $35-$40 and go from there. Although TT is definitely on the cusp of value 3!. If this is the first time her button raise has faced a 3! it's tough to know if we should be opening up our value range or start mixing some lighter hands in. Anyways, 3!, don't be sad if she folds, if she calls, bet most flops. If there's an overcard out there and you get called, look to shut it down.

There's some merit to playing this hand passively and check/calling down against safe boards and betting patterns. I'm kind of curious how others handle this spot. Against less LAGy V's I'm more likely to take the passive route and not valuetown myself, but when I know they are raising a wide range I 3! in these spots. Not sure if it's right or optimal, just how I've been doing it.

I hate TT. That said, it's still a good 3 betting spot if you think you can win the pot right there. Make it 40$ to go and if called, bomb any low uncoordinated flop. I think this is the best we can usually get if we don't flop a set, and a board with a T and any paint is probably gonna get callers.

Min 3 bet preflop. Keep SPR high post flop. Take bet fold line.

Let's try something differnt.

I'd take the risk and call pf in hopes of getting another bet out of her. My guess is her cbet % is high. If so, I'm c/c the flop no matter what it is. If she is only cbetting 30-40% of the time, then 3betting is better to make her fold her equity.

I feel like calling is the standard play here and I would need a really good reason to do anything else.

If we call here, we're going to start a donkey train, and then if we flop a set we have a decent chance of stacking someone (either the raiser or one of the loose passives in between).

Given how marginal everyone seems to think 3betting is, I don't see what the problem is with figuring we are going to make most of our money on flops that have a T on them.

If it does go heads-up or 3 ways and we get a good non-T flop, then I like venice's plan.

This is awful advice, hope you are trolling

Call pre imo, really hate 3-bet/folding TT pre

Call, let the limpers in, flop set, win money. 3b OOP without any real dead money in between seems like a waste of value. Her 3b calling range should be a lot narrower than button raising range, and you're going to be lost when flop has two overcards, or even any Q/K/A high flop. Exactly what boards are you barreling/stacking off on when you don't have an overpair to the board?

I mix between 3 betting and flatting in this sort of situation with JJ/TT/99. Hand is ahead of villain's range but these hands play badly OOP post flop. Effective stacks are deep enough to set mine, but if hero doesn't hit a set will have to give up hand to a c-bet with air a lot. Both options have up sides and down sides, I don't either is clearly better.

In this specific case I like flatting, because villain sounds tilted and is thus likely to be sticky both pre and post flop. That makes playing them OOP even harder but improves EV when we do hit a set. Other villains matter also, and given the loose/passive group flatting will probably help our direct odds.

I'm comfortably ahead pre. Otf, mid pp often wind up getting boxed in. A flop of 976 isn't as delightful as it looks.

The other issue in mind is, how we plan to play post, and what sort of range I should represent.

Against a loose passive fish, I don't mind playing a narrow range of good cards, because they aren't paying attention. Against a nit, I want to play a broad uncapped range to give me several ways to win the hand. Against a LAG I might want to limp behind with equity hands, to encourage her to bet into a range that is stronger than she thinks.

She is too strong pre and too weak post. Long as the collar matches the cuffs, I figured it could go either way.

--------

Hero 3bets $40.

Flop ($80) Qc9cQd

Hero stares at stack, counts slowly to 20, and...

Being ahead of V's OTB range and having to contend with limpers, I like 3betting pre to 35 in order to isolate with a plan to cbet/fold unless we improve. By flatting we are inviting the field of limpers to come along and essentially set-mining.

Bet 55 OTF, no need to be any bigger as it essentially constitutes a bluff vs her continuing range.

Check/fold remaining streets if called unimproved.

On that flop, c-bet flop and give up if called unless you spike a ten. Note that a jack or king is actually bad because catching a straight card on turn is likely to give villain a boat, better pair or higher straight draw. No need to go big here, $45/$50 is enough, if you actually had the queen you would be trying to keep her in after all.

Also, if you get any vibe from here that she is interested in the hand, just give up now and save the price of the c-bet.

In this particular spot I would definitely 3bet, between 38 and 44 or so, depending on the number of limpers and my reads about them. I even think just calling pre here is a mistake.

I would cbet half pot on the flop, and then just see what happens.

I don't know that I would go that far.

If the plan is to go all looney-tunes aggro, as I have a (ahem) proclivity to do, I think it is important to raise pre, just so that there's no defined upper limit on my range.

That doesn't necessarily mean however that a passive approach is wrong. When I read about the "donkey train" I laughed so hard, I peed a little. But the logic is flawless, I would have had odds to draw to the set. Over time, that's good money, and it's low-variance money.

This is why I posted this thread, because it actually is NOT a slam-dunk no-brainer.

In fact, this should be a testable theorem. Someone with a big enough hand history should be able to go through and see if it's more profitable to flat or 3bet with TT out of the BB, one would think

Every situation is different. Here you have a couple of weak players limping and a woman who raises every single button, making it 12 in this instance which certainly doesn't scream monster or anything. Ergo, you always have the best hand. Raise and collect all the dead money or play HU vs someone who will play fit or fold on the flop. Tens are too strong to only want to play for set value in this particular spot. Plenty of spots where flat calling is the way to go, but this is just not one of those spots if you ask me.

OK Homie, here goes!

Nit UTG folds
Couple of MP limps from loose passive players
Folds to Villain on button who bets $12
SB folds
Hero in BB has TT, 3bets to 40
Folds to villain who calls

Flop ($80) Qc9cQd

Hero bets $50, Villain snap-calls

Turn ($180): Qc9cQd9s

Villain looks a tad nervous, starting at board, shuffling chips. First time tonight she's shut up. Which in itself might have been worth 50 bucks.

Sup bro?

No need to take yourself to value town. Not sure what to make of your read that she's suddenly nervous and shut up. Do you put her on a slowplayed AA and are thinking of bluffing? I don't think a combo draw really cares about the hand anymore.

I don't like this spot anymore either. I'm content to just check it down. An agitated tilting villain is likely to spite call off their stack even though they *know* they're beat. Don't bluff them. I don't think you get value from A high or draws anymore, and all the hands better than yours likely snap call or at least strongly consider it. Check and evaluate. If she does something that looks like a bluff we can discuss hero calling.

I want to check the turn as well and probably fold to most bets.

I think her range at this point falls into three categories: nuts, overpairs, and draws, mostly flush draws. I don't think it's out of the question she calls flop with overpair given the paired board, I think her plan overall is to ride out the cbet and evaluate.

My read on her is that she has a more-or-less TAG playing style. Her post-flop play isn't bad; she fires a cbet and gets the heck out of Dodge if the fish play back. She won't stack off without the nuts. Standard. Her main issue is she plays too many hands pre, which makes her cbet fluff frequency too high, and the fish are eating her alive.

The way I look at it, we have three ways to play:
1. Setmine pre. This won't work against her, because she isn't going to pay us off, so we gotta bring the fish along.
2. Call behind and let her fire into us. This should be good for one street of value, which arguably is fair enough. Small hand, small pot.
3. Plan on bombing a scare card OTT because she won't stack off without the nuts.


By raising pre, I was setting myself up for an aggressive strategy, and I think there's an argument for it.

However, if I had checked behind pre, I actually would have been giving myself two ways to win the hand: by setmining the fish, and by letting her cbet into strength.

I think taking an aggressive strategy might have been a better way to leverage a suited connector. But I think, ironically, it was a waste of equity to run this aggressive line with a mid-pp.

I think I dipped a little too far down into my value range by 3betting TT here. I think a 3betting range against this chick, from the BB, should look like QQ+,AK,67s. Something like that, I think. That's the lesson I'm taking home from this discussion, hopefully that's the right one. As always, I appreciate everyone's comments.

Hahah you took almost same line as I stated.

Anyways as played if she's good she's firing all turns here if you check what do you do?

Also really against a good aggro player IP almost no flops besides set mining is good for you obv. This is why I wrote to min raise preflop. This keeps in her whole range we beat. Ater that pot is small we can lead for smaller size bets this also makes our hand look very valueish so any aggression by villian means we fold safely.

Maybe I'm the only one but at 1/2 where people don't pay nearly as much attention to ranges....I think you need to strongly consider what you're trying to accomplish with your 3bet.

Are you trying to isolate villain? or are you trying to pick up the dead money and one raise?

If trying to pick up the money then I like a raise to @$70 pre...

I say flat pre though and set mine (keep the pot small)....hit your cards and let them pay you off by hitting a piece.

Standard setmine IMO.

if we flop over-pair, check-call her down

Given the range I give her, I think it's probably a fold.